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I have I broke it?
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fysmd
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Joined: 29/04/2003 14:53:28
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

I left it turned on last night and it's flat this morning, does it have a backup battery, and if so how long should I wait to make sure that it's discharged?



I've contacted GlobalSat with a description of the problem.



Fingers crossed that depriving it of power will fix the problem.
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

fysmd - am glad your Bluetooth GPS is back alive now, and I think we understand the problem.



Hopefully GlobalSat will sort this out, just as Emtac apparently did with their unit. This has the prospect to cause severe inconvenience!







David
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MikeB
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

The "Super Capacitor" which incidently I couldnt find when I took my unit to bits does have the effect of storing electricity for a period, and thus acts like a battery. If the circuitry it is supporting has very low power requirements then this can be over an extended period of time. The Emtac one was reportedly for up to 2 weeks. Dont think I could wait that long!!



I too have been talking to GlobalSat raising a few issues that have occurred during the review of the unit. They were a bit perplexed as to how this occurs. I told them apart from TomTom there were a number of other ways this can be set.



They also confirmed to me that they would be changing the FirmWare for the receiver. It was not clear if the current units could be upgraded.
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fysmd
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Joined: 29/04/2003 14:53:28
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

After a couple of attempts I now have a fully functioning BT receiver again. I'll not be fiddling like that again for a while!



I tried it briefly a couple of times without sucess - I'd obviously not waited long enough but it made me wonder: How long does it take to charge the "super capacitor" - do they behave like batteries or do they acheive a charge very quickly?



I quized GlobalSat again and they say that the next batch of their 308 will have a fix for this problem.
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

The article I quoted earlier in the thread implies that the Emtac (and therefore, I presume, the Socket) receivers are immune to this problem now; they won't allow setting the speed of the serial port on the GPS chipset in such a way that the link between the GPS chipset and the Bluetooth module in the GPS is lost.



Try it at your own risk, though!







David
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

Now strangely enough I've been switching my Socket BT GPS into all sorts of different baud rates, but I do usually switch to the same baud rate when going between SiRF and NMEA. Now do I dare try ???
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

That means it's precisely the "losing" issue that could happened with the pre-release Emtac firmware. Nasty - or as Dave put it, one serious bug. The firmware for the Bluetooth component should be modified to intercept protocol change commands and force the serial port speed to 38400. That shouldn't take many lines of code.



At least you have your answer - hopefully after two days of a flat battery your GPS should be back in the land of the living. The problem is that if you recharge the battery too early you'll have to flatten it and start the wait again.







David
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fysmd
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

I've heard back from GlobalSat:



1.      Does the problem was occurred while you switched the BT-308 from NMEA code to SiRF binary protocol and switch back to NMEA code? If it was such case, you need to power off the BT-308 and wait 2 days after the super capacitor of BT-308 was discharging thus the BT-308 will re-initialize from the factory setting in correct MNEA baud rate at 38400.



2.      As we know, some mapping software such as Tom Tom navigator v2.22 is able to switch the Bluetooth GPS receiver BT-308 to SiRF binary protocol for seeing how satellites receiving status. Please double check the NMEA code was setting correctly baud rate at 38400 while you are switching back SiRf binary protocol to NMEA.
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

The Emtac does which preserves the ROM for usually around 3-5 days, but I don't know if the GlobalSat does. If it does, then it's a case of waiting it out.
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fysmd
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

It's my GlobalSat BT gizmo, it's poorly, I think I've hurt it....



All work going swimmingly, I was in using the TTN 2.22 GPS tool and was trying different drivers. I tried the sirf bluetooth one, it beeped a bit, I got random satilite fix data and so I decided that this wasn't good. Changed back to NMEA 3800 and nowt works any more.



I had previously experimented with turning WASS on and off using theGPS Info SW which came with the GPS receiver. I found that wit it enabled I lost most of the sats which I had fixes on without it so I disabled it again..

Noe I don't get any NMEA data if I use WInFast Navigator, GPS Info and I see no animated dots in the TTN GPS app...



Just tried a hard reset and now TTN2 want's another activation code Sad



Oh woe is me...
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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

Hmmm, if that is the case, then that's one serious bug. There's no way you can know that other software might try to do this.



Sounds like discharging th ebattery is the only way and waiting for the backup battery to discharge, but it's going to be longer with the GlobalSat's extended battery.
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

It sounds a bit like you may have fallen over the scenario I described from early Emtac/Socket firmware . You can read about that in this article. It sounds like you have connectivity to the Bluetooth module in the GPS, but not between the Bluetooth module and the GPS chipset.



I hadn't realised that the TomTom driver is capable of trying to reconfigure serial port settings - though both Dave and the author of that article say it is.





I fear that what has happened is that you've lost connectivity between the Bluetooth controller and the GPS chipset in your Bluetooth GPS. I don't share Dave's optimism that you can rescue this using ordinary configuration software, as I don't think you necessarily have any way to talk to the GPS chipset at the right speed.



I'd argue that Globalsat have made a slip-up in the firmware if you can get into this scenario without any easy way out. It's too easy, using GPS drivers from major vendors such as TomTom, to 'lose' your GPS in this way. Just selecting the wrong serial port speed is potentially enough!



Is there any Pocket PC utility with the Globalsat that has any kind of reset function?





If not, unless someone comes up with a better suggestion, I'd try contacting Globalsat - you can't be the first person to have managed this unfortunate situation quite accidentally. I'd be surprised if they didn't have a way round this - though I wouldn't just try disconnecting the batteries in case you make things worse. Their web site is http://www.globalsat.com.tw







David
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fysmd
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

Dave,



Thanks for the suggestions.



I've tried TTN NMEA and SIRF at all speeds and Winfast navigator both manually for every combination and automaticly (2nd icon) too.



No difference Sad

Starting to worry now Sad(



I've reconnected my iPaq back to the Leadtek mouse, works fine so at least I can still find my way around!
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fysmd
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

Right, I've done a little invesiatation and find that if I use the BT manager to connect to the GPS receiver, it shows "Serial 20174b" which I'm sure is what it always said - although I can't say that I paid particular notice to it. When this is the case, looking at the status page for this connection I can see that data is being received from the GPS as the received counter is steadily increasing.

But if I just run GPSInfo, navigator, TTN GPS, first (without making a BT connection in the BT manager) and connect to COM8, the BT manager show "ActiveSync Serial Port" instead. When in this state, I don't see any received data in the counter.



I've tried leaving WinFast navugator to do it's thing but no joy, I've also tried all speeds, with both protocols manually, same result...

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Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:04 am    Post subject: I have I broke it? Reply with quote

Ian, fixing this usually is very simple. Basically using the NMEA or SiRF drivers in TomTom Navigator will not only just use the connection speed to try to connect at, but it will actually re-program the GPS Receiver to that baud rate. Most GPS Receivers won't work on all baud rates. For instance Emtac/Socket and most GPS Receivers will work quite happily on 4800. Now you can do one of two things, you can either use WinFast Navigator to do this, or TomTom Navigator.



I presume that in TTN the box is ticked, but you're just not getting anything back. If so, untick it, select NMEA 4800 then tick the box and see if this resolves it.



Failing that, take a look at Tweaking and Testing your GPS Receiver. You will probably need to try and connect at 38400, or if you've switched TomTom Navigator to use 4800, try this also with WinFast Navigator.



You should be able to get it back, effectively you should have connectivity to the GPS Receiver, but just no data feed coming back to the Pocket PC.
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