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Subscription Renewal & New Members.
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marksfish
Pocket GPS Verifier
Pocket GPS Verifier


Joined: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 789
Location: Sandy, Bedfordshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, big thread!!

I became a lifer when the database changed from free to a charging principle. During that time, there was some software available that allowed a virtual one touch camera submit on my PDA and earlier version TomTom. Easy to submit cameras. Submission was more difficult (from what I remember) because members had to verify themselves that the camera had not been previously submitted, before submitting the new camera.

My TomTom was upgraded and with it the sdk? files were not available for the submission software to work. I therefore "left" the community for a few years because there was no way for me as a lone driver to be able to capture a camera, name it and save it with a memorable name for submission.

Earlier this year, I found out CamerAlert was available to existing subscribers and it worked on Android phones. I have once again become an active member.

Not sure how much I have contributed over the years, but I do remember a big "do" over the fact PGPSW was going to charge for information given freely by its' members, hence the lifetime membership. Lifetime doesn't mean lifetime though as it does actually expire, however, sometime in the future.

I travel over 40,000 miles per year and use the database on a daily basis. I have to say that if it wasn't for my job, I wouldn't have the database as I would otherwise be travelling short distance. I would happily subscribe my company to it (as they in effect are the ones making me travel excessively), not so sure about the personal annual fee though? (makes me sound tight).

I didn't read all 9 pages, just the first 3 or so, so I may be in the minority here.
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bmuskett
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Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldfogy wrote:
No doubt somewhere in the sites T&Cs there is a paragraph that states you reserve the right to amend or alter the T&Cs as and when you feel you need to.

You're not wrong. From PocketGPSWorld Copyright and Terms of Use
"PocketGPSWorld.com reserve the right to change its policies and terms at any time. Any such changes will be posted on this page. Price and availability information is subject to change without notice. "
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bmuskett
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Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterc10 wrote:
MaFt wrote:
All this talk of suing for damages is just a bit silly, don't you think?

Who said anything about suing? As I said originally the decision has already been made that removes the risk of legal problems.

The final decisions have not yet been made on what the new charging model will be. I and others think the site are wrong to rule out rescinding current free life memberships, and I'd like them to change their mind about that.

I don't have a problem with them removing FLMs. In fact it might help the site get even more updates to the database. If they change the reward for a qualifying camera report to a year's free membership then in the future there would be an incentive for ALL members to report cameras. At present they rely on paying members trying to get a life membership and those lifers who continue to submit regardless.

Only the site adminstrators know the numbers. If they think they can continue leaving current life memberships intact, then fair enough. But I don't think they should hamstring themselves by ruling it out regardless. What good is that to those with FLMs if the numbers don't work out and the site has to shut down? What good is a FLM then?
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oldfogy
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Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 252
Location: West Midlands. UK

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks bmuskett
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K13ehr
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Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeoffCee wrote:
K13ehr wrote:
Thinking about it, to reward new spotters with a free years membership is not really a change as it will still cost the site the subs for a year per spotter, so no better off, and as the subs for a year isn't a fortune for most giving a different reward which has any real meaning is not going to be easy, I'm glad I'm not the one saddled with coming up with a solution.


Subs not coming in for a new spotter for one year compared to subs not coming in from that same spotter for the remainder of his lifetime does not equate to "no better off".


Sorry, my point was the habitual spotters would still in effect have a FLM so no change, on the supposition that quite a lot of members do still get out a lot and report new camera locations.

I would love to be able to afford to wander around all day and see the new cameras, I would of course report them, but like many a life member I just don't get out so much any more due to retirement, and due to retirement funds are limited and if my FLM was rescinded then the site would lose a member, not out of any malice, simply I can find many uses for the money, I've been a member for a little over 4 years and made a total of 84 posts so I'm not a prolific user, my sat nav is the same one I had then so all, I do is get the updates whenever I need to go out of my local area, in our old camper which is rare these days, then is also the only time I get to spot new cameras these days.

I have just noticed that to the right of this reply box it says quite clearly

"WORLDWIDE SPEED CAMERA SPOTTERS WANTED!



Lifetime Subscriber memberships awarded every week for verified new camera reports!

Submit Speed Camera Locations Now"

Perhaps an alteration is due.

Perhaps making the site available only to paid up or those FLM would generate some income, so if you want to download any info you need to pay for the privilege I'm a member on many other sites and I find most are now limited to about 5 free posts before you have to sub up, and no downloads until then, you know the value of your site once the members have to pay to use it.

This is a brilliant site and it would be a shame if it was lost for the sake of a few quid or foolish the tantrums of some members who cannot see the problem.

Members with FLM should of course retain it, the site would gain little by rescinding it, but another reward must be found to continue the goodwill aspect and to get fresh camera data, that is the original purpose of this thread, to get new ideas, perhaps we should concentrate on that...
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AliOnHols
Pocket GPS Verifier
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Joined: Oct 15, 2008
Posts: 1930

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to say that I'd happily loose my FLM if it contributed to the continuation of this site.

From members replies and the result of the poll you have the support of the majority to remove FLM. So do it!

1 year free membership added to the existing expiry date sounds like a reasonable incentive to keep the submissions coming in and the database up to date.

Also, If you are "selling" the CamerAlert app for free, don't also offer a free update. Ship the app with the database which was current at the time of release. Whet peoples appetite and if they like it (and how could they not?) they will buy it.

Finally, well done to sampa. Bet you didn't think that your 2 line OP would generate so much discussion about the future of PgpsW?.
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. A week to clock up ten pages - I guess it's been quite a while since a topic generated such traffic. Goes to prove how passionately we all regard this site.

I do think it demonstrates that for Darren and "them" to commit so quickly to not rescinding existing FLMs is questionable. Sure, it's your site, your rules, but this would not be the first time a membership undercurrent has convinced you to alter direction.

So, come on Darren. Make a headline issue of it in the next newsletter, which hopefully will be noticed by more than those of us who happen to have come across this thread. Generate some serious volume of comment and look at it from the perspective of the membership. Set up a fresh poll for subscribers only, which isn't ambiguous. Link to a discussion thread which is only accessible to subscribers. As has been said already, if the site closes, FLM isn't worth a plugged nickel.
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BigPerk
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: East Hertfordshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm a member on many other sites and I find most are now limited to about 5 free posts before you have to sub up, and no downloads until then, you know the value of your site once the members have to pay to use it.
Interesting post - this had crossed my mind, but the few other sites I use don't charge, so I didn't think it was a very good suggestion to make. Guess it is after all - eg the currently free POIs are pretty useful and could sensibly be charged for (reduced rate though).

Also the point about charging for CA updates seems sensible too.
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member


Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

K13ehr wrote:
Sorry, my point was the habitual spotters would still in effect have a FLM so no change, on the supposition that quite a lot of members do still get out a lot and report new camera locations.

Yes, habitual spotters would still earn themselves a FLM, but I doubt that there are lot of them, outside of the verifiers. And by the way, I think the verifiers should keep their FLMs anyway as some small reward for the work they do.

K13ehr wrote:
I would love to be able to afford to wander around all day and see the new cameras, I would of course report them, but like many a life member I just don't get out so much any more due to retirement, and due to retirement funds are limited and if my FLM was rescinded then the site would lose a member, not out of any malice, simply I can find many uses for the money, I've been a member for a little over 4 years and made a total of 84 posts so I'm not a prolific user, my sat nav is the same one I had then so all, I do is get the updates whenever I need to go out of my local area, in our old camper which is rare these days, then is also the only time I get to spot new cameras these days.

I'm the same. I don't drive around the country anywhere near as much as I used to. I don't use my satnav on my commute and I tend to only download the database when I go on a trip. But, is it really not worth 1.67 a month to you? Is that such a hardship?

K13ehr wrote:
I have just noticed that to the right of this reply box it says quite clearly
"WORLDWIDE SPEED CAMERA SPOTTERS WANTED!
Perhaps an alteration is due.

That's already been raised and answered in this thread. For the moment it's true.

K13ehr wrote:
Perhaps making the site available only to paid up or those FLM would generate some income, so if you want to download any info you need to pay for the privilege I'm a member on many other sites and I find most are now limited to about 5 free posts before you have to sub up, and no downloads until then, you know the value of your site once the members have to pay to use it.

In theory the payment IS for access to the site, not just the speed camera database.

K13ehr wrote:
This is a brilliant site and it would be a shame if it was lost for the sake of a few quid

Exactly. But it's a few quid (1.67 a month, 38p a week) to individual members, it's substantially more to the site.
K13ehr wrote:
or foolish the tantrums of some members who cannot see the problem.

Tantrums? The people like me who are prepared to give up their FLM seem pretty happy to do it. The warnings about possible legal action have come from those who don't want to lose their FLMs. Can you not the see the problem that keeping existing lifetime memberships might kill the site?

K13ehr wrote:
Members with FLM should of course retain it, the site would gain little by rescinding it, but another reward must be found to continue the goodwill aspect and to get fresh camera data, that is the original purpose of this thread, to get new ideas, perhaps we should concentrate on that...

I think that we're pretty much agreed that there will be a limited reward of some kind for camera reports in the future (6 months, a year), but I also think that since the site are considering changing their business model they may as well go the whole hog now and address the current lifetime membership issue.
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GeoffCee
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: Telford, West Midlands

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmuskett wrote:
I think that we're pretty much agreed that there will be a limited reward of some kind for camera reports in the future (6 months, a year), but I also think that since the site are considering changing their business model they may as well go the whole hog now and address the current lifetime membership issue.


A few posts ago I suggested a lifetime reduction in subscription of 50% as a reward/incentive for camera spotting. Half subs would probably lift PGPS finances out of the hole they're in and camera spotters would (should) feel adequately compensated for the very little effort they expend in spotting and reporting cameras.

If you get from this that I feel spotters are at present over-generously compensated you'd be right. A reward system which guarantees to bankrupt the rewarding organisation is insane.

Of course, the responsibility for this situation lies entirely with the management of PocketGPS, in not recognizing that human nature will always err on the side of greed, (spot one camera and it's free for life!), which in my view is why there is the rattle of dissent in the ranks at the possibility of losing FLM's.
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bmuskett
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Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K13ehr wrote:
I do is get the updates whenever I need to go out of my local area, in our old camper which is rare these days, then is also the only time I get to spot new cameras these days.

As an aside, I don't think this is true. All of the changes I have reported in the last couple of years, and new and seen again mobiles, have been in my local area or on my commute. I think you're much more likely to notice changes in familiar surroundings. You don't even need to have your satnav with you, just keep your eyes open!
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BigPerk
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: East Hertfordshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A reward system which guarantees to bankrupt the rewarding organisation is insane.
A few comments along this vein, as if PGPSW were irresponsible in introducing it. TBH I don't think they were (overgenerous, maybe, but not irresponsible).

At the time this field was very active, but as Darren (I think) said, the market has significantly contracted, (a) because of the iPhone, et al, and (b) (I think) the changes in the law in some countries - not in the UK yet, but I still wonder if it has nonetheless depressed some interest. So I guess that the overall subscribing membership of this site has declined considerably (eg nearly all posts are now just about TomTom issues), as costs no doubt keep increasing.

PGPSW responded well with the CameraAlert product, and maybe should seek more revenue from this if sales are holding up well (eg an update charge). And I do think with many lifers almost pleading for their FLM to be withdrawn to save the site (as has been said, what good is FLM without PGPSW?) they could consider offering a voluntary option of some sort - there surely cannot be any legal issues with such an appoach.

Another suggestion occurs to me - many sites carry advertising to boost revenue - maybe PGPSW could do more in this area (eg from companies that have their product licence)?
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Anita
Pocket GPS Moderator
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Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 3219
Location: Windlesham, Surrey

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigPerk wrote:
And I do think with many lifers almost pleading for their FLM to be withdrawn to save the site (as has been said, what good is FLM without PGPSW?) they could consider offering a voluntary option of some sort

Darren's Oct 5 post on page 7 says
Quote:
We are considering an option that would allow existing life members to make a voluntary payment as a contribution. Those life members who did so would have their donation recognised with a new rank to recognise their support.

I think if, as Darren has suggested, those of us with LFM who opt to pay subscriptions are given a new rank, it will become quite obvious how much support there is for this site and the camera database, and the value most of us place on it. There will be very few posts showing the "Lifetime Member" rank, and those that do will stand out like a sore thumb!
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DennisN
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the same vein, I have long wished that pgpsw would change the "ranking" system to show all non-subscribers as "Guest" - there are (I think, but don't know) a significant number of posts from people who don't subscribe and I wish we could see them.
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If it tastes good - it's fattening.

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BigPerk
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1618
Location: East Hertfordshire

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
posts from people who don't subscribe and I wish we could see them.
Not sure about the motive for this (especially as I have just qualified for the 'Guest' rank!). Makes it sound a little as if Guests might be considered as second class spongers, whose comments do not deserve attention. But they are just people who use the site facilities provided (including posting) which are available for free - absolutely kosher.

I'm Sure Dennis doesn't mean this - obviously it would be useful to know this when people bleat and whinge about subs, but you will usually find someone's post which points this out anyway ( Rolling Eyes )
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