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Pocketgps Lifetime Member
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 2145 Location: Midlands, UK
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Digital Video Cameras that can use memory cards? |
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DennisN wrote: | Darren, can you give me a link to camcorders using SD cards please - I'm very happy with my Panasonic DV cameras at present and need to look at what quality is available for solid state ones (the HDD one I tried from JVC was poor quality video and fell over when I sneezed). I haven't got HD Telly and want to continue using Pinnacle Studio Plus for editing etc. A few SDHC cards could be a brilliant move from DV tapes. |
If your Panasonic DV camcorder uses tapes the quality I suspect is quite good and will produce good TV footage via Pinnacle.
But, camcorders that use memory cards are very expensive if you want to produce the same quality videos (£450-800).
My main camcorder is a Sony DCRHC65 using mini dv tapes. Although its only 2 mega pixels the videos are very good viewed on TV or computer.
I also have looked into memory card camcorders and purchased a Sanyo VPC-CG65. This is a 6 mega pixel camcorder with 5x optical zoom, but the output is only suitable for viewing via a computer even though it has direct TV connections, just does not compare to the Sony DCRHC65.
The best memory card camcorder I have seen for the money is the Sony HDR-CX6EK which can be found for about £450 which does produce superb video.
Bottom line, cheaper memory card camcorders will not produce good quality video like mini dv camcorders. |
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Pocketgps Lifetime Member
Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 2145 Location: Midlands, UK
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, should have said £550 not £450 - look on flebay. |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have to differ there slightly, although my Powershot TX-1 is ostensibly a Camera/Video combined rather than a dedicated camcorder it cost me only about £250 and outputs 720p HD resolution at very good quality for its size. 60 mins at full HD on an 8GB card is plenty for most purposes and the battery would need changing then anyway!
Granted the quality is not as good as a dedicated HD camcorder but at a third of the price and size it suits my needs perfectly and fits in my pocket. The 10x optical zoom is also very sharp for its size
For some reason it was never officially imported into the UK which is odd as in my opinion it doesn't have any competition at this price point. They are about though with some unofficial imports etc and the warranty is valid here.
I know it's not a Pro camcorder but I wanted one that I could carry everywhere and had easy file access, I don't need to Import any movies, just copy the .mpg file from the card to my Mac, simple
http://powershot-tx1.blogspot.com/ _________________ Darren Griffin |
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philpugh Lifetime Member
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 2003 Location: Antrobus, Cheshire
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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I have a Canon Mv450i mini-DV camera and a Sony DCR205 DVD recorder that records a variety of MPEG2 directly to the mini-DVD.
With the mini-DV tape format the data rates are fixed at approx 3.8Mbytes/sec of video (which is about 7:1 compression compared with uncompressed PAL datastream). What this usually means for domestic/amateur use is that the factors effecting quality are the CCD/CMOS sensor(s) and the lens of the camera. At mini-DV rates you could store just short of 5mins per Gb - so in theory you could start to get acceptable storage with modern 8/16GB cards - it will be interesting to see how it develops and whether the manufacturers allow good quality, editable, formats.
The miniDVD recorder (which gives me fom 60 mins 'long-play' through to 15 mins of 'high-quality' on a 2Gb RW disc) produces very acceptable quality (at the standard or high-quality settings) - but if you want to do anything more than a simple cut/trim edit on the video you can end up with poor quality video as the data is uncompressed and re-compressed. MPEG1/2/4 were never designed to be an editable format.
The 450 produces very nice quality and I have produced some very nice DVDs from it (I use Vegas Video - now owned by Sony). The DVD recorder (which gives me fom 60 mins 'long-play' through to 15 mins of 'high-quality' on a 2Gb RW disc) produces very acceptable quality (at the standard or high-quality settings) - but if you want to do anything more than a simple cut/trim edit on the video you can end up with poor quality video as the data is uncompressed and re-compressed.
I suspect the same will be true for card based storage. It will be down to the compression factors used by the manufacturers.
I bought the DVD recorder because we were away and "needed" something to record an event we were at - it was on offer for £99 with 5*2GB RW discs. Ex-demo unit. This was last year. A a point and shoot camera it works well and it's small enough to carry around. _________________ Phil |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, thank you thank you all for some really good info. I shall now have to read and re-read everything you've posted to get the info out properly. Mostdom - I could be happy to be bored with something about .avi and whatever else - Please? And what's with "clean" for Pinnacle? But I can't read the JVC manual - I flogged the thing to my daughter (at a loss )
HD - I should have clarified - when I said HD for the JVC, that was a Hard Disk camera. I didn't realise it could be confused with High Definition, of which I do not have such a telly, so I am wary of getting that sort of thing (also, I do the annual local British Legion Club show as a DVD for members to buy - at no profit to me I hasten to add £6 a Disk, half to me for materials, half to the Club funds - and I wouldn't want to move towards a format some might not be able to watch, including me) _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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pcaouolte Frequent Visitor
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: South Lincs, UK.
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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From what I read here Pinacle seems to fall over regularly, I currently use Nero Vision which also falls over at exactly the wrong moment. Can anyone recommend editing software which works for more than a few minutes at a time? |
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mostdom Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006 Posts: 1964 Location: Surrey, UK.
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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everybody wrote: | ...asking stuff about stuff... |
I use Pinnacle Studio 10, which does fall over but normally when I try to do too much. Cleaning the files before use I find is a must for trouble free editing. If pinnacle falls over it will restart from the moment before it fell over, meaning you loose little.
Avi's are in essence uncompressed videos, although there are avi compression software, I am not aware that digital cameras compress avi's when they are created. mpg are compressed at creation where only the footage on screen that accually changes is recorded, i.e a still camera only needs to update the object that is moving on the screen, all else remains the same. Or something like that! Most notably is mpg's are normally smaller in size.
To clean files in Pinnacle you need to load your videos up without allowing them to be split automatically. Do not be tempted at this point to edit the files. If at all you may chop the unwanted ends of each clip. Then you must re-save the whole video in either avi or mpg (you choose) within Pinnacle. This has the effect of removing the dirty compressions left by your camera, and replaced by a good quality compression of Pinnacle. Now you can remove the old loaded files and reload the new clean video for editing.
All clear! _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot |
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mostdom Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006 Posts: 1964 Location: Surrey, UK.
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a Pinnacle video I posted on you tube. _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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mostdom wrote: | To clean files in Pinnacle you need to .... .... | Right then. I'll settle for saving every few minutes!
To everybody, thank you again for all the input, which I've now read several times. I think on balance I'll stay with my DV tape camera until there's a bit more clarity about SD card format videos and probably a bit of a price drop too. But I really like the idea. If only they would do my present camera and video quality with nice big SDHC cards instead - I can get four SD cards (in their protective cases) into the same space as just one DV tape and they seem a lot less fragile too.
I think I'll go away and investigate how to put an Almostaudisilvervan video onto metube (preferably before next weekend's MeetnGreetnEat event). _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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aj2052 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 03, 2005 Posts: 1431 Location: Leics,UK
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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I am trying to evaluate both Pinnacle studio 11 and Ulead Videostudio 11 and only done a few edits before deciding, have not had any problems with either falling over on desktop or lappy, i need to make the right choice because I have about 30 years of video and cine to edit so it is going to be very time consuming. |
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mostdom Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006 Posts: 1964 Location: Surrey, UK.
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: |
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One issue I have with Pinnacle is a lot of the video effects are available as an add on pack you will need to buy at additional cost, otherwise quite competent.
DennisN wrote: | mostdom wrote: | To clean files in Pinnacle you need to .... .... | Right then. I'll settle for saving every few minutes! |
I expected that! If you ever want help with it Dennis, just ask! _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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mostdom wrote: | One issue I have with Pinnacle is a lot of the video effects are available as an add on pack you will need to buy at additional cost, otherwise quite competent. | Yes, very mean of them. mostdom wrote: |
DennisN wrote: | mostdom wrote: | To clean files in Pinnacle you need to .... .... | Right then. I'll settle for saving every few minutes! |
I expected that! If you ever want help with it Dennis, just ask! | It's OK, I can manage - I click on File, Save (all the big boys do it that way). _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Dennis, you have a Mac, the best platform for video editing and it has the tools built-in! iMovie and iDVD, really easy to use and capable too. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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pcaouolte Frequent Visitor
Joined: Dec 27, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: South Lincs, UK.
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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mostdom wrote: | Here's a Pinnacle video I posted on you tube. |
Very good. I particularly like the picture-in-picture section. I'll have a look at this Pinnacle software.
Thank you.
Paul |
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mostdom Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jul 10, 2006 Posts: 1964 Location: Surrey, UK.
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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pcaouolte wrote: | Very good. I particularly like the picture-in-picture section. |
Thank you! I had been looking for an opportunity to try out that feature. You Tube doesn't do it justice, my dvd version is better. _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot |
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