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Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject:
Its a real shame that some of of searching for the "Holy Grail" of a connected device have had to use third party products to get a working solution, I think with the arrival of the XL IQ and newly announced XL IQ Live devices which don't support handsfree of mp3 plater it is time we did a review of a number of handsfree add on kits to suplement these devices and could be used with the Go x20, x30 and x40 devices to enhance installed performance - Mike
Joined: Jul 07, 2006 Posts: 1650 Location: Newcastle, England, UK
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject:
jimbo_hippo wrote:
And why can't we have patches for items quickly? Why do we have to wait for a major release for stuff which, in my opinion, isn't rocket science and a company of this size should fix ideally overnight, at worst in a couple of days.
Because the new 'patches' require testing. This takes time to do as you can appreciate with the very wide variety of settings on the same device.
You don't want TT to release a patch just because it works on 2 peoples units in Amsterdam to Joe public. You want it to be tested on a large sample of users, in different configurations, and then any issues they have with the patch fixed and then re-tested! _________________ Tomtom GO 1005 LIVE
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject:
jimbo_hippo wrote:
Andy_P, Bluetooth Streaming doesn't work well. If you activate it, on the fly it will cough and splutter until you reset the device.
It doesn't for me. Simple as that. Sorry. The only issue I ever have with Blue tooth is a very occasional slight playback speed error.
I ONLY say what I see. As another example, a few people have been saying the "volume issue" with this software makes their device almost inaudible. Me, I don't find that. Simple as that.
TT now say they have dropped it a bit (10%) but I use my TomToms in several different vehicles and at very different volumes depending on whether I've got the window open, or I'm listening to the radio, or I'm just fed up with hearing its voice. There's always been enough variation on the volume slider to keep me happy. So no.. for me it's NOT inaudible, never has been.
Quote:
And the reason your IO-Play works well is because it ignores the AVRC profile for controlling the device which is fundamental to the whole bluetooth streaming idea.
I don't own an IO-Play (or a Parrot for that matter). You are mistaking me for someone else.
Quote:
I'm beginning to suspect you might be a BETA tester or something with a vested interest because these LONG TERM issues and bugs are unacceptable.
What the ****? What has that got to do with it? If I were a beta tester, why would that mean I had a "vested interest"? Do you think they get paid bribes or something?
Most of all, wouldn't it be just as much in a beta tester's interest to get stuff fixed?
I think if you read some of my previous posts, you'll find I can be VERY scathing of TomTom when they deserve it (probably too much for a beta tester!) for example with the slow screen refresh rate problem, but I'm fed up with some of the un-informed comments flying about in this topic (I'm not saying they are from you jimbo_hippo).
I think I need a break, and as I'm gong on holiday, I now withdraw from the discussion for a few days.
Last edited by Andy_P on Sat May 23, 2009 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject:
Lets all calm down a bit, some of us have found a better solution to our specific mobile phone handsfree and navigation requirements, whilst the TomTom is equipped to perform this capability it is suboptimal when compared to what the Parrot or iO-Play device can offer from what I have experianced - (still in the tent closeto a damn church tower that dongs every 30 minutes even through the night) - Mike
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:33 am Post subject:
I'm with Jimbo and Andy Vaughan on this.
I've just retrieved my GO700, now four years old. With an external aerial for better satellite acquisition, an external microphone for hands free and a wireless remote control (which still has the original batteries!), I'm as happy as Larry. Wish I could get a v8 map onto it.
The 920T alongside it blinks, stammers or starts/ends half way through nav instructions, switches itself on when I want it to stay off and doesn't do what it says on the box. On reflection, I was something of a fool to keep my 720s and the 920.
TTNav6 alongside these on a decent screen in 2D mode is lovely. Wish I couold get a v8 map onto it.
A single device which did everything would be great, exactly what I want and used to have with the 700, but since the x00 range, TT devices have gone backwards whilst claiming to have moved forwards. The only thing they've improved over the x00 range is the screen size and definition.
I currently have three nav devices, mobile phone and Trafficmaster Freeway just below my line of sight, together with the four-way ciggy lighter adapter for them all fixed on top of the dashboard and I just don't fancy another lump there. _________________ Dennis
Dennis,
Why do you have 3 units on your dash? If they all gave different information/directions which one would you follow? Would having to check compare 3 units not distract your attention from driving?
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:25 am Post subject:
bullyterrier wrote:
Dennis,
Why do you have 3 units on your dash? If they all gave different information/directions which one would you follow? Would having to check compare 3 units not distract your attention from driving?
Well, having three gives a decent chance that if one falls over, the others won't, so I'll still get there. Having one unit (HTC Advantage, TTNav6) with large screen and TT in 2D Mode gives a beautiful view when I'm in London getting lost and losing signal in the urban canyons.
Mostly, all three give the same route, but when one gives a shorter route (at startup) with the same or very similar ETA, I tend to follow that one in order to get the lowest fuel consumption for the job. I get no extra pay for getting there quicker, so my fuel cost comes out of my invoice income. "They" pay me according to "their" mileage calculations, so if I can beat that, I'm winning a pound or two and in my business, £5 is a lot to make extra on a day's work. I can use multiple devices to test routes like this. For example, the accepted calculation of mileage from Bristol to somewhere on the south of the M25 is along M4 to M25 then round, but taking A329M via Bracknell and M3 is about 10 miles shorter. At 50p a mile, that's £5 in my pocket. Bristol to Southampton is M4 to Newbury, then A34, M3, - 101 miles, time 1Hr 40 mins. Via Salisbury, A36, it's 74 miles, 1Hr 45 mins. Who's going to tell the difference between me arriving at five to instead of ten to? But I make £13 extra. No brainer.
On the TTs I find the display of distance remaining is quite easy to see at a glance - I'm driving a heck of a lot, so a quick glance at my instruments is all I need (and I glance when it's easy, not when I'm driving through a school playground) - I'd probably make a brilliant jumbo jet and/or fighter pilot and gigolo if only I were 50 years younger! _________________ Dennis
After reporting to Tomtom the problems with the update & getting no where with it,Tomtom emailed a customer satisfaction survey to complete,does not take rocket science to what my replies were !. _________________ Square2024
TomTom 520
Christmas Draw 2010 Grand Final Winner Garmin Nuvi 1490TV
Joined: Jan 04, 2006 Posts: 9323 Location: Durham, UK
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject:
I've install the 8.350 Navcore to an SD Card and tested it.
I can't see any problems with it on my unit. The volume seems the same at 50%, the calculation speed is the same (except i noticed the map is no longer shown when calculating, just a message saying "Planning Route...") and the Markers seem a good touch. With regards to satellite strength on the first boot i couldn't get above 1-2 bars on the main screen and 2-3 satellites on the more detailed screen. After a restart it now shows 4-5 bars on the main screen and 6-7 satellites on the more detailed screen.
Given that all is working on the SD card does this mean all will be well if i install to the main unit? Or does it not "work like that"? I'll run it on the SD Card for a few days...
And why can't we have patches for items quickly? Why do we have to wait for a major release for stuff which, in my opinion, isn't rocket science and a company of this size should fix ideally overnight, at worst in a couple of days.
Because the new 'patches' require testing. This takes time to do as you can appreciate with the very wide variety of settings on the same device.
You don't want TT to release a patch just because it works on 2 peoples units in Amsterdam to Joe public. You want it to be tested on a large sample of users, in different configurations, and then any issues they have with the patch fixed and then re-tested!
Hey Fakirk,
I tend to keep my personal information off here so I'll refrain from saying what I do for a living but lets just say it's a hardware software combination in a completely different field to TT but with many similarities.
The way it works for us is this. You develop a new 'navcore' (=release) and put in all the new functionality but only after you've fixed any known issues. Then you do an Alpha and run it internally to iron out the obvious. Then you do a BETA which goes out to a selection of registered Beta testers which represent a cross section of the end uses and existing hardware combinations. You keep tweaking it until it works on all know combinations. We then release a public BETA on the understanding that it is just that and warn people not to use it in mission-critical environments. You then take that data and build a release. If there are known issues which persist you list them in the release notes. This helps garner the support of the people using it because you are honest about the issues and generally people are happier knowing something has a problem instead of blindly ignoring it and calling it a feature. Finally, you don't let tech support conclude something is resolved until it actually is and you track support calls to see patterns and FIX STUFF! If issues persist with a particular version of hardware you release a patch on the understanding that it is for that device and that device alone.
I'm getting a reputation as being a bit vociferous on this forum so I've been as polite as possible. Tom Tom has a bill for office water coolers that probably outstrips our turnover and the software is SO much more simple than ours. I'll go back to my beef about Bluetooth streaming. They aren't inventing anything. They're just implementing an industry standard protocol in AVCRP. And they don't and they haven't since the release of the Mp3 player. To remove funcrtionality such as individual controls for volume across the features isn't progress, it's a bodge.
I have a hunch based on what I've seen from other companies we tie in with. A programmer produces the basic navigation and it works well. he becomes a stakeholder in the company when it floats then refuses to let go of responsibility even though there are young hotshots ready to improve and be managed by said man. But it doesn't happen and the guy blunders on with a team who aren't given free reign to advance the software. As I say, purely a hunch but there must be a reason why TT are big (in their industry) yet produce bedroom freeware style additional functionality.
I still like how Tom Tom navigates but everything else is at best mediocre and at worst a joke.
I went out in my motorhome last weekend. No Bluetooth. Just line out into stereo so volume bodge didn't affect me). No PAYG phone so no traffic. Same map I set up a couple of months ago. Life was good. Yesterday, post map update, I went to Newcastle from North Yorks and back to drop off kids then over to Manchester to see Blue Man Group at the MEN in my Bluetooth equiped car (Parrot 6100). I disabled the voice but the system still muted the stereo and played me nothing at each junction - thats's the Tom Tom issuing commands so it's not the Parrot. I couldn't advance a track on the Mp3 player because I had no signal sitting in the Tyne Tunnel (weirdest bug ever). Evertime someone called me the sound of Made In Japan Live in Tokyo came blasting out if the tiny internal speaker then wouldn't reconnect afterwards. So I re-enabled the Bluetooth and the Mp3 played in coughs and splutters until I did a hard reset. This is a daily ritual all round. It's not good enough. I had no favourites and no camera alerts after a map update. What's wrong with a wizard that cherrypicks simple data from the MapSettings file and applies them to the new one? Why doesn't it know where I live any more? etc etc
As a guy who has experience with the results of fiddling, my Mp3s are untouched from a standard rip, I run no 3rd party software o the Tom TOm and it's in clean and unfiddled form. This isn't someone going into text files and editing values or tweaking it up to experiment. It's out of the box.
So I vote for a better management of Beta testing and some proper fixes. Or I'm selling it (at the end of the map subscription) and going back to my TTN6 on a PDA. Little progres since then outside IQ routes so what am I missing out on? _________________ Tom Tom GO 720
Orange M3100, Orange SPV M5000
TomTom Navigator 6, Destinator 6
Holux GPSslim
Joined: Sep 30, 2005 Posts: 988 Location: St Martin's, Guernsey
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject:
I asked TT Support about the volume issue and apparently it was reduced because it was "damaging the speakers in some devices".
Quote:
Thank you for contacting TomTom Customer Care
The reference number for your query is 090522-005228.
we are aware of the volume issue and are looking for an alternate solution, the volume was damaging the speakers in some devices so we reduced the output. As soon as we have an alternative fix we will release it as an update.
With Kind Regards
The TomTom Customer Care Team
Customer (***** *********) 22/05/2009 09.12 AM
Since updating to the latest app, like many other people, my volume level is very poor. At 100% and with the link to background noise unchecked, it's just adequate at 30mph. Much faster and it becomes difficult to hear and, of course, I have lost the benefit of the volume automatically adjusting itself to the amount of background noise.
Previously at 80% and with the link to background noise checked, it was fine.
I know others have been advised that this was changed to prevent the distortion that some users had complained about, but surely it's better to have the choice to turn the volume down yourself if affected by this.
I understand that your support service has advised users to use the line-out, which is ok if you have an auxiliary socket on the car radio, as I have, but then you can't have the radio on while using the device as it has to be switched to the Auxiliary setting to use the line out from the device.
Please can something be done sooner rather than later to restore the volume to its previous level.
Well said Jimbo!
tomtom are just plain and simple SN4p!
(SN4p is a game of cards by the way..for those that have the warped minds to think I am swearing and therefore edit my post)
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject:
Calomax wrote:
I asked TT Support about the volume issue and apparently it was reduced because it was "damaging the speakers in some devices".
Well there's a new one, hadn't heard the damage reason before.
Here's mine
Quote:
Dear Mr N,
May we apologise for the delay in responding to your query.
The reference number for your query is 090519-007107.
Thank you for your patience. Please note that the reduction in volume caused by the latest application 8.350 is under 10% and was done in order to improve overall sound quality from the internal device speaker. If it is too soft, please use the line out or FM transmiter, instead of the internal speaker. A future software update will improve the volume situation.
I then replied as follows..
Quote:
I don't have line out and you have disabled FM transmission of navigation instructions except when the Jukebox is playing. I NEVER want the jukebox playing. Also, using FM transmission means I cannot use the radio to receive any other broadcasts.
Please advise me how long will it be for you to issue the software update to improve the volume situation?
I cannot use 8.350 with the volume at this level. Will my new map v830 work correctly with 8.350?
It has not ended, they've since replied that "as stated previously" a future software update will improve it and the 830 map was designed to be used with 8.350 and I've responded that I saw that previous statement the first time and wanted them to tell me WHEN? And I'm not too happy that the new map I've paid for will only work if the navigating instructions are inaudible, so it won't work!
Jimbo, thanks for your post, for me it was very informative. I've always thought it should be a simple thing for TT to get it right and you've now shown just how simple - you've put in writing what I couldn't get my thoughts around. _________________ Dennis
I have a hunch based on what I've seen from other companies we tie in with. A programmer produces the basic navigation and it works well. he becomes a stakeholder in the company when it floats then refuses to let go of responsibility even though there are young hotshots ready to improve and be managed by said man. But it doesn't happen and the guy blunders on with a team who aren't given free reign to advance the software. As I say, purely a hunch but there must be a reason why TT are big (in their industry) yet produce bedroom freeware style additional functionality.
Quite possibly, but equally with a start-up like TT, it could have been written by hot-shot programmers who've cashed out and moved on, and left little in the way of expertise, documentation or instructions behind. So they are reduced to patches, kludges and masking issues. Anything else takes longer than the available time-to-fix schedules allocated.
I've seen both - too many times.
Quote:
I still like how Tom Tom navigates but everything else is at best mediocre and at worst a joke.
Agreed to the navigation, but that's actually not done by TT software or TT programmers, it just re-iterates it to the text-speech s/w. (I suspect that TT may have been the ones who added "keep in left/right lane" but based on how well that works, I hope they don't add any more!)
Unfortunately, based on experience, I've absolutely no belief in TT ever fixing this mess. It would take at minimum a change in culture... Only other route would be if the recent attack by M$ leads TT to open source the non-navigation parts, and let them focus back on the important proprietary stuff, as this would easily get them out of their patent problem with latest patch/adjustment to Linux. But I also doubt that will happen, there would be too much - inappropriate IMHO - fear of uncontrolled chaos on the device. But more significantly I'm sure that TT makes most of its money from selling these more expensive broken systems - and their replacements - to give up this cash-cow. _________________ Go Premium X / Go 1005
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