| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Darren
Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| evocipher wrote: | | I don't use a car here as we cycle everywhere! That said I did manage to set off a speed indicating board on my pushbike in a 30kph limit, luckily we don't have plates on our bikes, not that I'm advocating speeding. |
That's that idea out of the window then!
| Quote: | | Perhaps you could make a monthly pay option available via direct bank transfer which would surely cut down on people abusing your copyright? |
We can't use DD, the banks won't entertain it for a service that has no physical product.
| Quote: | | I'd love to carry on using the database maybe another idea would be 6 downloads with no time limit for the price of the yearly fee? |
That's an interesting idea.
_________________
Darren Griffin |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
badgerdid
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Dec 08, 2005
Posts: 41
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I dont think what you have done is a good idea, me like others, have bought the database as and when needed, at £2 a time this is nothing, now you have done this i think you will find more people will revert to the pirated, p2p uploads.
you went from free to £2 now your forcing people to pay £19
surely these pirated p2p sites were not loosing you any real money, if so what you are saying is a lot of members are using them instead of paying for them from here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
biggles150
Lifetime Member
Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Eltham, London
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | you went from free to £2 now your forcing people to pay £19 |
No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
| Quote: | | surely these pirated p2p sites were not loosing you any real money, if so what you are saying is a lot of members are using them instead of paying for them from here? |
That's the whole point, the p2p sites won't be too keen to pay £19.
_________________
Go Classic
Application 7.163 (8493/71205)
OS:2328
GB Map v710.1571
Sandisk ultra II 512MB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | i think you will find more people will revert to the pirated, p2p uploads. |
The move is to deter people from uploading it in the first place, by hitting those that do upload it financially. If we reduce the uploads we reduce the chance to download.
| Quote: | | you went from free to £2 now your forcing people to pay £19 |
Prices go up and down in all markets. The £19 is an ANNUAL fee and is unfair to compare to a £2 MONTHLY fee. Considering the price of just one speeding ticket, it's not much.
| Quote: | | surely these pirated p2p sites were not loosing you any real money, |
It's denying PGPSW of a potential sale. I'm sure if you had an idea or data that could be marketed you'd be interested it being sold for maximum potential and not to be downloaded / shared for free.
| Quote: | | so what you are saying is a lot of members are using them instead of paying for them from here? |
I am staggered to see how you came to that conclusion!! We'd have no idea on exact figures but I'm sure that most of those that download from P2P and File Sharing sites will NOT be members from here. Some downloaders maybe members, but the majority might never have even been to this site, let alone become a member or subscriber. However the copies that appear on P2P and File Sharing sites MUST have come from a subscriber and under the new system we can tell who the file originated from and they will be banned and loose all remaining subscription fees. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aj2052
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 03, 2005
Posts: 1431
Location: Leics,UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Qote:
| Quote: | | It's denying PGPSW of a potential sale. I'm sure if you had an idea or data that could be marketed you'd be interested it being sold for maximum potential and not to be downloaded / shared for free |
So it is profiteering then
Quote:
| Quote: | | However the copies that appear on P2P and File Sharing sites MUST have come from a subscriber and under the new system we can tell who the file originated from and they will be banned and loose all remaining subscription fees. |
Its a fine then and if its so easy to find out who shared it Why bother changing the system |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | So it is profiteering then |
I think you meant "making a profit" which is what all good companies do. PGPSW is a limited company. As with all companies they are entitled to make a profit. They do the work of collating that data and paying for the distribution. If PGPSW weren't doing it, could you? For free?
Profiteering is making an un-ethical profit. How is PGPSW profiteering??
| Quote: | | Its a fine then and if its so easy to find out who shared it Why bother changing the system |
Sigh  This has been explained over and over but here goes...
If someone is caught having paid £2 for a sub and sharing the database they loose £2. They can then rejoin for another £2. Each time they rejoin they risk loosing £2.
Now they will loose £19 each time they share and get caught.
However we also watch for people who do get banned and then try to resubscribe under a new user name. They will also be banned and loose another £19. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
biggles150
Lifetime Member
Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Eltham, London
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I'd love to carry on using the database maybe another idea would be 6 downloads with no time limit for the price of the yearly fee? |
I think that's a good solution for those who update infrequently.
_________________
Go Classic
Application 7.163 (8493/71205)
OS:2328
GB Map v710.1571
Sandisk ultra II 512MB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PaulB2005
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Quote:
I'd love to carry on using the database maybe another idea would be 6 downloads with no time limit for the price of the yearly fee?
I think that's a good solution for those who update infrequently. |
Only problem i can see is what if you wish to try out the different database types? That could use up 3 of your annual downloads in one go.
Those who use the European and UK databases would effectively get only 3 downloads for their money. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aj2052
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 03, 2005
Posts: 1431
Location: Leics,UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote:
| Quote: | | If PGPSW weren't doing it, could you? For free? |
Yes I do regulary submit Pois for free and so does the the Camera database rely on free submissions, I am cureently collating a submission of over 300 POIs but having reservations because nobody will comment on whetehr this will ulimate be chargeable, I also ran my own business at a profit without my customers supplying the materails for free, so I am fully aware of business economics.
On your second statement you miss the point in that you now have means in practice to trace pirates then this apperantly is so good to clear the uploaders then this should be adequate to remove these and leave the occasional subscribers happy without extoring extra out of them, I would stae that that i niether endorse or condone piracy but fully support fairness the the members of this site. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
biggles150
Lifetime Member
Joined: Jan 09, 2006
Posts: 101
Location: Eltham, London
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, I see your point Paul. That's a shame, because it's the nearest anyone has come to a solution for the light downloaders in 21 pages!!
_________________
Go Classic
Application 7.163 (8493/71205)
OS:2328
GB Map v710.1571
Sandisk ultra II 512MB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aj2052
Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 03, 2005
Posts: 1431
Location: Leics,UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote:
| Quote: | | Profiteering is making an un-ethical profit. How is PGPSW profiteering?? |
Would it not be considered un-thical to induce people to submit data under the guise of a free database and then charge people for downloading after it has built up to a good and excellent database, In ny view this could reflect on the poi database. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Darren
Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| aj2052 wrote: | Yes I do regulary submit Pois for free and so does the the Camera database rely on free submissions, I am cureently collating a submission of over 300 POIs but having reservations because nobody will comment on whetehr this will ulimate be chargeable, I also ran my own business at a profit without my customers supplying the materails for free, so I am fully aware of business economics.
On your second statement you miss the point in that you now have means in practice to trace pirates then this apperantly is so good to clear the uploaders then this should be adequate to remove these and leave the occasional subscribers happy without extoring extra out of them, I would stae that that i niether endorse or condone piracy but fully support fairness the the members of this site. |
I'm getting really tired of your responses which seem designed purely to bait the team. We aim to make a profit yes, that is what business is all about but with a fair price. I note that you have never subscribed to the database, so either you have no knowledge of its quality or you get yours elsewhere? Scared your source will dry up?
We have no current plans to charge for access to the other POIs but it would be foolish in the extreme if I was to promise this could never happen. If this bothers you then don't submit them, it is as simple as that. The database may rely on user submissions but the work that has to go in to creating the database from those submissions is the hard part. Those paying and reporting cameras have no problem with the system as it is, many other services use similar systems.
We have already explained the change and the reasoning. We are not extorting money and if you think we are then that is laughable! If you don't like it don't pay, it is as simple as that. Identifying a pirate does not remove the file they have shared and so even though they may be banned the files remain ad infinitum for all and sundry to download.
The indications so far is that our move has worked, we have seen a marked difference in the piracy problem and no change in subscription figures. I'm happy that this was the right move.
I am not going to bother replying to your posts any more. You've had answers to all your points but rehash them again and again. Stay and play or leave, your choice entirely.
_________________
Darren Griffin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Darren wrote: | | evocipher wrote: | | I'd love to carry on using the database maybe another idea would be 6 downloads with no time limit for the price of the yearly fee? |
That's an interesting idea. |
This is an interesting suggestion and I don't mean to pee on anybody's fireworks, but:
what if somebody tried downloading the database for a seventh time within a year - would the subscription automatically switch to an annual subscription or would an additional "pay as you go" payment be requested?
how easy would it be to administer a system where some were paying £19 for an annual subscription and others are paying the same amount for a pre-designated number of downloads?
how easy would it be to monitor how many downloads somebody has carried out over a potentially lengthy period of time?
what if one download is incomplete, for whatever reason (computer crash, internet disconnection etc) and a person therefore has to re-download, would this count as two downloads?
_________________
Andy
PocketGPSWorld.com supports Help for Heroes - Read here |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| aj2052 wrote: | | So it is profiteering then |
At £2/month, the database wasn't free and at the equivalent of £24/year woud work out 21% more expensive, so potentially less "profiteering" by having only an annual subscription and saving members £5/year
_________________
Andy
PocketGPSWorld.com supports Help for Heroes - Read here |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skippy
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12
Posts: 2946
Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| aj2052 wrote: | | Would it not be considered un-thical to induce people to submit data under the guise of a free database and then charge people for downloading after it has built up to a good and excellent database, In ny view this could reflect on the poi database. |
If you are creating your own POI database then good luck to you, I admire people who put the time and effort into these things.
If your database ever gets so big that you have to have a full time employee to manage it then you would probably have to charge people to download it.
In this situation, you could contact all the people who have contributed in the past and offer them a free lifetime membership. Also, you could run a scheme whereby the first person to contribute a new or removed POI to the database also gets a free lifetime membership too.
This would promote goodwill and a community spirit among people who genuinely contributed to building your database, though you may find that you still get a few people moaning that it should still be free (even though they have never contributed) or some dishonest folks uploading/downloading it using peer-to-peer filesharing.
I'm surprised that someone hasn't thought of all this before though. 
_________________
Gone fishing! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
![]() Posted: Today Post subject: Pocket GPS Advertising |
|
|
We see you’re using an ad-blocker. We’re fine with that and won’t stop you visiting the site.
Have you considered making a donation towards website running costs?. Or you could disable your ad-blocker for this site. We think you’ll find our adverts are not overbearing!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in for private messages
Log in
