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Are Smart Motorways Confusing for Drivers?
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BovGregg
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: undertaking Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
BovGregg wrote:
Well I was always taught not to undertake so has the law changed for some people.
No. There you go. Question answered.

What's more relevant, as Kremmen pointed out, why are you driving in an outer lane with a clear lane to your left so that being undertaken is a possibility/probability? Shocked That is called lane hogging and is also against the law punishable by fines/points (if ever anyone bothered to do something about it). Very Happy

Well I will educate you as the only people who hug trees are the ones that crash into them.
This is the latest idiot:-
When you are travelling at night in the third lane overtaking an artic at 70mph. When it is safe to do so you pull over into the 2nd lane giving the artic plenty of room. Whilst pulling over a car is coming up on the inside luckily I saw it in my mirror, where the hell did it come from unless he was undertaking in the 1st lane to over take the artic & then pulled into the 2nd lane to undertake me. Luckily I avoided an accident & quickly pulled back into the 3rd lane. He stayed behind as he must have been speeding anyway.
So I was not hogging the outside lane but trying to get back into a slower lane. which brings me back to why are more & more drivers undertaking have they been given a special law?
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ScaniaUltimate

As we are now quoting rules, have a read of rules:

Rule 137
On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.

Rule 138
On a three-lane dual carriageway, you may use the middle lane or the right-hand lane to overtake but return to the middle and then the left-hand lane when it is safe.

@BovGreg

And no, they have not been given a special law. They are being stupid and will possibly cause an accident one day.
But perhaps if the HGV involved had been in the LH lane as he possibly should have been, the problem would not have arisen?
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ScaniaUltimate
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
@ScaniaUltimate

As we are now quoting rules, have a read of rules:

Rule 137
On a two-lane dual carriageway you should stay in the left-hand lane. Use the right-hand lane for overtaking or turning right. After overtaking, move back to the left-hand lane when it is safe to do so.

Rule 138
On a three-lane dual carriageway, you may use the middle lane or the right-hand lane to overtake but return to the middle and then the left-hand lane when it is safe.



Those Rules cover prevention I suppose, but don't specifically address passing on the nearside ('undertaking').

That's the problem with the Highway Code; lots of ambiguous Rules open to interpretation.
My idea of "safe to do so" may well be different to others. As an LGV C+E driver I have a good idea of how much room to leave before I pull back in front of a loaded artic to enable the driver to remain relaxed; but I don't expect the average car driver to know.

"Should stay in the left-hand lane" is a bit generous. Not a Law but a Rule & then only a woolly Should!
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
@ScaniaUltimate

But perhaps if the HGV involved had been in the LH lane as he possibly should have been, the problem would not have arisen?


Exactly

I'm doing the M4 from junctions 3 to 10 almost daily and at their car speedo of 48 - 50 they sit in the middle lane nose to tail.

I'm quite happy to do SatNav 50 (speedo 53) in the nearside lane crawling past them all.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaniaUltimate wrote:
As an LGV C+E driver I have a good idea of how much room to leave before I pull back in front of a loaded artic to enable the driver to remain relaxed; but I don't expect the average car driver to know.
You would if you were passing me because I would flash my lights when you were clear like a lot of HGV drivers do. Very Happy
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Privateer
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
You would if you were passing me because I would flash my lights when you were clear like a lot of HGV drivers do. Very Happy

I ALWAYS flash HGVs and coaches in, but nowadays rarely get a thank you back! Sad
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They always used to, but these days I drive so damn fast that HGVs don't get a look in. Laughing
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marksfish
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a "young" driver at work, well about 25. We were travelling to a site some months back and I saw he was middle lane hogging all the time I was behind him (we came from different places, that's why not travelling together). I questioned him on why he stayed in lane 2 and his reply was "I thought the slow lane was for lorries and coaches"!!.How many times do you hear people talking about the "fast" lane and the "slow" lane. Drives me potty Twisted Evil

Back to lane hogging though. I don't see many learners on the motorways (I thought the change of law would see them in their droves), but I have never seen a learner in lane 1, even when nothing is there. So, if driving instructors aren't correctly teaching the new generation, what hope is there?
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DEANO3528
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting conversation.
I drive a lot, including HGV1 as well for 16 years and I do two things that will probably drive people crazy on here looking at some replies. Firstly if for example I am in L1 with cruise control in at 70 and I am closing on a middle lane hogger I just continue in my lane passing on the left with caution. This is no longer considered against the law, but if I was in L2 catching up the middle lane muppet and moved to L1 to pass and then returned to L2 this is undertaking. Making progress in your own lane is not against the law.
The other one is zip merging. It took me a long time to reconfigure my old set ways to embrace zip merging but utilising an entire road rather than a single crawling line for twice the distance (or more) is most definitely the way to go and is very much the law abroad.
What is missing from today's televisions are the good old Public Information Films because if everyone was kept up to date with the latest laws and driving guidelines people might not get so angry or confused.
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ScaniaUltimate
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
ScaniaUltimate wrote:
As an LGV C+E driver I have a good idea of how much room to leave before I pull back in front of a loaded artic to enable the driver to remain relaxed; but I don't expect the average car driver to know.
You would if you were passing me because I would flash my lights when you were clear like a lot of HGV drivers do. Very Happy


Thank you. Smile
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marksfish
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEANO3528 wrote:

The other one is zip merging. It took me a long time to reconfigure my old set ways to embrace zip merging but utilising an entire road rather than a single crawling line for twice the distance (or more) is most definitely the way to go and is very much the law abroad.


A much better way of keeping the queues shorter. What does annoy me though is that when a delay (e.g. on a 3 lane) occurs, the hgv drivers block off lane 3 to prevent the zip system. However, if the blockage is in lane 1 and drivers move across to lane 2, the hgv's thunder up lane 1 to the last minute before cutting in. I never see any hgv's preventing this. A case of double standards maybe?

A lot of roadworks now have extra "merge in turn" signs, which are generally ignored

I am aware this is going off on a tangent now.
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ScaniaUltimate
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Privateer wrote:
M8TJT wrote:
You would if you were passing me because I would flash my lights when you were clear like a lot of HGV drivers do. Very Happy

I ALWAYS flash HGVs and coaches in, but nowadays rarely get a thank you back! Sad


Thank you & don't give up!
There are a few reasons you will not be thanked every time:
Often car drivers flash their lights too quickly; i.e a quick on-off flash. This is often missed as we do not look in the mirror constantly during the overtake. A longer on, hold a second or two, off flash is better. You may notice night time flashes receive a higher percentage of acknowledgements as we don't need to be looking in the mirror to see the flash.

We also don't expect car drivers to flash so it is easier for us to to miss if done early. Allow a good distance before flashing as we need to know for sure what your flash means before we will pull in. With other large vehicles we already trust flashing their lights means we are beyond them.

I'm afraid there is also the negative aspect. Some large vehicle drivers do not like the fact they have had to overtake a non-speed limited vehicle and just expect you to overtake again & repeat if given encouragement; that does happen!

Then there are the mightier than thou drivers who have too big an ego due their vehicle size to consider thanking you for helping them on their road! Grrrr -
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaniaUltimate wrote:
Often car drivers flash their lights too quickly; i.e a quick on-off flash. This is often missed as we do not look in the mirror constantly during the overtake. A longer on, hold a second or two, off flash is better
Must admit that that one had passed me by. Note to self. Long flash for HGV should I find myself in that situation.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DEANO3528 wrote:
Interesting conversation.
Firstly if for example I am in L1 with cruise control in at 70 and I am closing on a middle lane hogger I just continue in my lane passing on the left with caution. This is no longer considered against the law.


That's exactly what I'm doing down the M4 but I thought I was breaking the law.

The other thing I do is overtake the centre lane hogger on the outside lane then safely cut across in front of them from lane 3 to lane 1 to give them a clue but only about 1/100 gets the message.
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless that traffic is slow moving (not defined in rule Rule 163) you are. Perhaps you were the "latest idiot" to whom BovGregg refers to above K? Very Happy
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