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2000 Caught In Week Long Speeding Clampdown
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RobBrady
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject: 2000 Caught In Week Long Speeding Clampdown Reply with quote

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Two thousand speeding drivers have been caught during a week long clampdown in Hampshire and the Isle of Wight.

During the week of August 17 and 23, 1,938 vehicles were caught exceeding the speed limit - 403 by Roads Policing Officers and 1,535 by mobile and static speed cameras.

Approximately 50 per cent were offered a speed awareness course in lieu of a Fixed Penalty Notice.

A spokesman for Hampshire Constabulary's Roads Policing Unit commented: "Excessive or inappropriate speed has an appalling impact when you're involved in a collision. The forces experienced by the human body in a collision increase exponentially as the speed increases."

He added "If you collide with a pedestrian at 30mph they have a 80 per cent chance of survival, however if you collide at 40mph then the pedestrian only has a 20 per cent chance of survival."

80 per cent of the offences happened on roads with a 30mph speed limit.

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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He added "If you collide with a pedestrian at 30mph they have a 80 per cent chance of survival, however if you collide at 40mph then the pedestrian only has a 20 per cent chance of survival."
Then they shouldn't walk out in front of cars with their heads stuck into their [email protected]@dy phone then.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Quote:
He added "If you collide with a pedestrian at 30mph they have a 80 per cent chance of survival, however if you collide at 40mph then the pedestrian only has a 20 per cent chance of survival."
Then they shouldn't walk out in front of cars with their heads stuck into their [email protected]@dy phone then.
If they see you coming and turn and run away at 10mph they'll save their own lives. Rolling Eyes
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Wazza_G
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
M8TJT wrote:
Quote:
He added "If you collide with a pedestrian at 30mph they have a 80 per cent chance of survival, however if you collide at 40mph then the pedestrian only has a 20 per cent chance of survival."
Then they shouldn't walk out in front of cars with their heads stuck into their [email protected]@dy phone then.
If they see you coming and turn and run away at 10mph they'll save their own lives. Rolling Eyes


Sorry, I'm with M8TJT on this as a motorist and a train driver who's had near misses due to idiots walking out into the road or railway foot crossings with earphones firmly embedded into their lugholes or their bl00dy mobile wedged against their ear so engrossed with their conversation/music and not their surroundings and impending danger.
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ScaredAmoeba
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: if you collide at 40mph Reply with quote

"if you collide at 40mph then the pedestrian only has a 20 per cent chance of survival." - this appears to significantly be in error.

A quick check shows two sources which are similar but show the survivability is worse than 20%, as low as 15%, which is substantially less.

http://humantransport.org/sidewalks/SpeedKills.htm
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Wazza_G
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: if you collide at 40mph Reply with quote

ScaredAmoeba wrote:
"if you collide at 40mph then the pedestrian only has a 20 per cent chance of survival." - this appears to significantly be in error.

A quick check shows two sources which are similar but show the survivability is worse than 20%, as low as 15%, which is substantially less.

http://humantransport.org/sidewalks/SpeedKills.htm


I see that you have linked to another I'll informed website which spouts out the usual drivel of "speed kills", speed DOES NOT KILL! It's the impact that does, if speed killed you wouldn't be able to drive, fly or use a train.
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ScaredAmoeba
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wazza_G wrote:
DennisN wrote:
M8TJT wrote:
Quote:
He added "If you collide with a pedestrian at 30mph they have a 80 per cent chance of survival, however if you collide at 40mph then the pedestrian only has a 20 per cent chance of survival."
Then they shouldn't walk out in front of cars with their heads stuck into their [email protected]@dy phone then.
If they see you coming and turn and run away at 10mph they'll save their own lives. Rolling Eyes


Sorry, I'm with M8TJT on this as a motorist and a train driver who's had near misses due to idiots walking out into the road or railway foot crossings with earphones firmly embedded into their lugholes or their bl00dy mobile wedged against their ear so engrossed with their conversation/music and not their surroundings and impending danger.


Every day I see people on the phone, whether it's pedestrians, or drivers it's an epidemic of idiocy. At least the pedestrians mostly only endanger themselves. But when drivers do it, they endanger everybody, even people in their own homes.

In Great Britain, from 2009 to 2013: 34 pedestrians were killed on average each year by vehicles on footways/verges (pavements).

I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of those were drivers on the phone.

Perhaps it goes part-way to explaining this:
http://tinyurl.com/q8erdnv


Last edited by ScaredAmoeba on Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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ScaredAmoeba
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:04 am    Post subject: Speed and speeding both kill Reply with quote

From a report produced by the Helsinki City Planning Department, Finland, states that a speed of 50 km/hr increases the risk of a pedestrian death almost eight-fold compared to 30 km/hr. The graph below demonstrates the collision speed and probability of death.

Graph
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ScaredAmoeba
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: if you collide at 40mph Reply with quote

Wazza_G wrote:
ScaredAmoeba wrote:
"if you collide at 40mph then the pedestrian only has a 20 per cent chance of survival." - this appears to significantly be in error.

A quick check shows two sources which are similar but show the survivability is worse than 20%, as low as 15%, which is substantially less.

http://humantransport.org/sidewalks/SpeedKills.htm


I see that you have linked to another I'll informed website which spouts out the usual drivel of "speed kills", ! It's the impact that does, if speed killed you wouldn't be able to drive, fly or use a train.

"speed DOES NOT KILL" - utter, ill-informed, disingenuous nonsense.
Unfortunately for people like you, the science and road-casualty rates say otherwise.

Speed most certainly does kill, hence the graph which is from the scientific literature. Do you know what science is? I rather doubt it.

Speed provides energy in the form of kinetic energy, increased speed (caeteris paribus) greatly increases the available energy and available momentum.
Relative speed makes a collision possible.
It's the momentum transfer between objects (acceleration) that kills.
It has been shown that as speeds increase, the probability and violence of collisions increase.
Humans are not evolved to travel at high speeds, and physiological processes such as nerve-impulses are much the same speed as say in a chimpanzee.
Limited reaction times are in-part a reason why collision frequencies increase at higher speeds.

"Road traffic statistics confirm that children up to 15 years old are overrepresented in pedestrian casualties...,such that children may not be able to detect vehicles approaching at speeds in excess of 20 mph. This creates a risk of injudicious road crossing in urban settings when traffic speeds are higher than 20 mph."

As for your ludicrous quote, trains are only safe because they have cleared tracks and speed limits for bends, when there are obstacles on the tracks or speed-limits are exceeded, bad things can and do happen.
As for aircraft, air safety has only been achieved at a cost of great loss of life and a great deal of research and engineering in making air-travel safer.
You clearly have little or no understanding of why rail and air-travel are so safe.

All of which show your comment was entirely false and egregiously-so.
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jackbarry
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear - we are being "bombed" by ScaredAmoeba!
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which gives about 30% and 80%
For goodness sake, loose the long link scaredomeba. Put it in url codes or just loose it. It's destroying the thread format.
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Philip
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: if you collide at 40mph Reply with quote

ScaredAmoeba wrote:
It has been shown that as speeds increase, the probability and violence of collisions increase.

While I can accept that, in the case of a collision, the Impact will increase with increasing speed differential between the colliding objects (which is not the same thing as absolute speed), can you please point us at the scientific research which shows that the Probability of a collision increases with increased speed?
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ScaredAmoeba
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: if you collide at 40mph Reply with quote

Philip wrote:
ScaredAmoeba wrote:
It has been shown that as speeds increase, the probability and violence of collisions increase.

While I can accept that, in the case of a collision, the Impact will increase with increasing speed differential between the colliding objects (which is not the same thing as absolute speed), can you please point us at the scientific research which shows that the Probability of a collision increases with increased speed?


FYI, all I did was copy paste your quotation from my previous comment into a search engine. Not too difficult.

Finch, D. J., Kompfner, P., Lockwood, C. R. & Maycock, G. (1994) Speed, speed limits and crashes. Project Record S211G/RB/Project Report PR 58. Transport Research Laboratory TRL, Crowthorne, Berkshire

Secondly, you overlooked my direct quote (although unattributed by me), from Wann et al.

Reduced Sensitivity to Visual Looming Inflates the Risk Posed by Speeding Vehicles When Children Try to Cross the Road John P. Wann, Damian R. Poulter, and Catherine Purcell Royal Holloway, University of London

Abstract
Almost all locomotor animals respond to visual looming or to discrete changes in optical size. The need to detect and process looming remains critically important for humans in everyday life. Road traffic statistics confirm that children up to 15 years old are overrepresented in pedestrian casualties. We demonstrate that, for a given pedestrian crossing time, vehicles traveling faster loom less than slower vehicles, which creates a dangerous illusion in which faster vehicles may be perceived as not approaching. Our results from perceptual tests of looming thresholds show strong developmental trends in sensitivity, such that children may not be able to detect vehicles approaching at speeds in excess of 20 mph. This creates a risk of injudicious road crossing in urban settings when traffic speeds are higher than 20 mph. The risk is exacerbated because vehicles moving faster than this speed are more likely to result in pedestrian fatalities. Keywords vision, detection, looming, children, road, safety, time to contact, tau, perception, development Received 9/17/10; Revision accepted 11/5/10

Which is further, independent confirmation that increased speed increases the likelihood of a collision.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will you please do something about the long link in your previous post. It's screwing up the format. If you can't put it in URL codes, then delete it. It's only pictures of crashed cars and absolutely nothing to do with the current topic of pedestrian collisions.
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Philip
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: if you collide at 40mph Reply with quote

ScaredAmoeba wrote:
Which is further, independent confirmation that increased speed increases the likelihood of a collision.

Nonsense. All that it shows is that, for a very specific and limited case (unsupervised, young children crossing a road) that their perception is sufficiently immature that they cannot recognise the inherent dangers. The causal factors in these specific collisions could just as easily be determined to be "allowing unsupervised young children to participate in risky endeavours" as anything to do with the speed of the vehicles.

What about the body of collisions as a whole, rather than choosing one extremely narrow use case which supports your (flawed) reasoning?

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