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Subscription Renewal & New Members.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sausages wrote:
When Darren says current lifers will not have lifer status rescinded, with all the agreed benefits, I'm sure that decision is being made for legal reasons.

Legal reasons?
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unwanted
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Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
unwanted wrote:
would it not be a good idea to alter the subscription page of the website and remove the line about "free Lifetime Subscription" (when you report a camera)... until you decide what you are going to do?

Until we've decided what would be the point? It's still currently up for grabs?


to be possibly taken away at a later date as you clearly have said you cannot maintain the offer for ever... all you have to do is strip out the one line on the page until you decide what your doing... you'd be better to remove it now, instead of using it as an incentive to get people to subscribe...
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sausages
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Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
sausages wrote:
When Darren says current lifers will not have lifer status rescinded, with all the agreed benefits, I'm sure that decision is being made for legal reasons.

Legal reasons?


Yes, legal reasons. Surely you've considered that ?
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MaFt
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sausages wrote:
Darren wrote:
sausages wrote:
When Darren says current lifers will not have lifer status rescinded, with all the agreed benefits, I'm sure that decision is being made for legal reasons.

Legal reasons?


Yes, legal reasons. Surely you've considered that ?


What are the legal reasons? A Lifetime Subscription is not a product that a member can buy, it is a award bestowed upon someone who has helped us. Had we sold a Lifetime Subscription and we were taking it away then yes, perhaps there could be legal issues there - but in our instance there isn't.

MaFt
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sausages wrote:
Yes, legal reasons. Surely you've considered that ?

Pray do enlighten us.
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SlimboyFat
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Joined: Jan 27, 2004
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't think that the Lifetime Subscribers should have this removed. Yes, I am somebody who was lucky enough to get a FLS but this was the deal at the time. I have continued to submit (including another "1st to submit").

Somebody earlier mentioned that banks change the offer constantly but if I was given a Lifetime offer from the bank which was later removed I could easily move banks.

I agree with changing the offer for new spotters as they will be have "signed up" to the new agreement when they submit the camera. The only time anyone could complain is if they state they paid their subscription on the hope of getting a FLS so maybe the new terms would have to commence on members next renewal.

As for the poll, this was very one sided. It was not clear whether we where voting about current FLS or new FLS and most people would not want to post saying they would not be happy to have their FLS removed and how many of the voters where not FLS.

I would be more than happy to have the option of a voluntary donation option.
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lenfish
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Joined: Sep 30, 2009
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.Run the site on a franchise basis and invite the Department for Transport to organise the bidding process for you or (more seriously)

2.Bite the bullet and award 1 years free subsciption for successful camera submissions whilst inviting existing "lifers" to voluntarily relinquish their status to assist the continuation of the site.

Len
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To prevent this thread going downhill any further, we've had a discussion and whatever happens with the lifer award for future subscribers, those who have been awarded to date will not lose their life member award. That is agreed and will not change.

We are considering an option that would allow existing life members to make a voluntary payment as a contribution. Those life members who did so would have their donation recognised with a new rank to recognise their support.

Moving forwards, the preferred option for a new reward model would be to move to a 6mth or 1 year Free Subscription, added to the balance of any existing subscription. There may also be some system to reward multiple qualifying cameras so that subscribers will have opportunities to tot up rewards. That way those who do the most work to support the database get the most reward.

Thank you for all your comments, positive and otherwise, it's never easy when major changes are proposed but sometimes we have to make touch choices.
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlimboyFat wrote:
As for the poll, this was very one sided. It was not clear whether we where voting about current FLS or new FLS and most people would not want to post saying they would not be happy to have their FLS removed and how many of the voters where not FLS.

My request for somebody who knew how, to set up a poll for me said...

"Will somebody who is clever please set up (and link here to) a poll - cross refer to this thread and ask the question "Should Free Lifetime Membership be withdrawn from existing Lifers" - simple YES, NO. I believe the result will be overwhelmingly to withdraw it."

Although at the time I thought it should be only Lifers to vote, on reflection I really don't mind who votes - nothing wrong with a bit of democracy.

Darren and "they" have decided the wrong way - somebody else has already pointed out that cameras and PNDs are rather on the way down, so omitting existing Lifers from subscription is a hole in the finances (in my opinion) - for example, over the last two months alone, over 60 free lifetime memberships have been announced. Take some extrapolation of that and get 1 a day - probably more than that, as numbers fall off due to existing Lifers playing a part in reducing the availability of awards for their submissions (how many times does the list of existing lifers exceed the list of new awards?) - say 400 in the last 12 months - I'd guess 10,000 and counting, so how much over all the years? I'm nothing to do with the ownership or runniing of this site. But if I were, I'd be bothered by that sort of figure - I mean every little 10,000 helps, don't it?

Footnote - I am well known for my mathematical ability (or should that be agility?).
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bmuskett
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Joined: May 12, 2006
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Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I agree with you, but Darren and "they" know the numbers, so presumably they think it will work. I hope so.
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unwanted
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Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
sausages wrote:
Darren wrote:
sausages wrote:
When Darren says current lifers will not have lifer status rescinded, with all the agreed benefits, I'm sure that decision is being made for legal reasons.

Legal reasons?


Yes, legal reasons. Surely you've considered that ?


What are the legal reasons? A Lifetime Subscription is not a product that a member can buy, it is a award bestowed upon someone who has helped us. Had we sold a Lifetime Subscription and we were taking it away then yes, perhaps there could be legal issues there - but in our instance there isn't.

MaFt


yes, you are correct your not selling the Lifetime Subscription but you are offering it as an incentive for a potential/current subscriber... and would be considered binding on any current subscriptions until they expire... which would be a different matter...

but hay, not to worry your a business and should know what your doing...


Last edited by unwanted on Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:21 am; edited 3 times in total
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Halohero
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Joined: Nov 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
To prevent this thread going downhill any further, we've had a discussion and whatever happens with the lifer award for future subscribers, those who have been awarded to date will not lose their life member award. That is agreed and will not change.



THANK YOU soo much for making the right decision.
I have recently become a life member and was stressing about loosing this awesome benefit when I have worked soo hard to achive it, Especially being on a very low income.

I still try my best to spot new camera location and help the database as I did before.

Thank You again for allowing us current life time member to keep the benefit.
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DennisN
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halohero wrote:
THANK YOU soo much for making the right decision.
I have recently become a life member and was stressing about loosing this awesome benefit when I have worked soo hard to achive it, Especially being on a very low income.

Couldn't you make some savings from downloading a few apps and stuff onto your new iPhone?
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MegaTum
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Joined: Oct 03, 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may not contribute often but I occasionally submit camera locations in the vain hope of not having to have cash leave my back pocket. :o)

Surely the reason for the continued existence of this database is quality and accuracy of the details it holds? Whatever decision is finally made it is important that this doesn't change going forward. For some it will be the pleasure of seeing their name on an email, for others it's not having to pay. Personally, I feel that a lifetime of free use is too much but people do need to be rewarded. It is, however, vital that the submissions continue otherwise the USP of the database is lost.

Can I suggest a points based system and when a user crosses a threshold then they received their reward? There could a tiered range points (and I'm making these up):

    100 for a new camera first,
    20 for the first validation (or how ever many you use as validation) of that new camera,
    5 for being the first re-confirmation of camera that hasn't been re-confirmed in over six months.
    1 point for being the first to re-confirm a camera for over 2 months.

    You could exclude certain cameras from receiving re-confirmation "reward points" where they are deemed more permanent.

Once someone earns 100 points they get their reward (say 50% or 100% discount off next payment - that's your 6 months or 1 year free). Alternatively, every point earned is a 1% discount off your next subscription? This would reward those who are active in reporting (although you may get someone who does the same cameras every few months to build up points but these cameras could then be excluded from the reward programme).

Anyway, that's my suggestion, for what's it's worth.
Dave
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peterc10
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Joined: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 1761
Location: Kent, England

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite suggestions to the contrary there may be legal problems with taking this benefit away. There could well be some form of contract between PGPSW and each life member. It does not need money to change hands to make a contract, so no "sale" as such is needed. What it needs is consideration. And that does not have to be monetary, but is must have some "value". The consideration given by the member is the submission of the camera. The consideration given by PGPSW is the lifetime membership. Both have a value and they could made a binding contract between the parties.

But all this is academic because PGPSW have decided not to revoke the life memberships.
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