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Subscription Renewal & New Members.
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BoscobelBlue
Lifetime Member


Joined: Mar 04, 2012
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to add my thoughts and re-iterate what many are posting. We have by far the best camera detection system available and at an amazing price of less than 20 per year. The cost to the motorist is immense when looking at the consequences of being 'trapped' by one of these cameras (fine, licence points, insurance costs).

In order to maintain this superior detection system I think some reward is necessary to the camera 'spotter'. However, free membership for life is far too extravagant.

Therefore I feel each new 'spotter' should be rewarded with one year free subscription. If the same 'spotter' locates a new second camera then the free year should begin again from that point and so on. Continuous 'spotters' are then better rewarded than occasional spotters.

Finally as a 'lifer' who has only 'spotted' one camera I would be pleased to donate to maintain the upkeep of the best camera detection system.
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14871
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a Poll HERE. Please everybody click on that link and vote. It's already showing a high percentage in favour of withdrawing, but it will carry more weight if we get lots of votes.
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If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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253
Lifetime Member


Joined: Mar 05, 2007
Posts: 1054
Location: The green bit between the M40, M4 and M25.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realise that discussion has been around the lifetime membership and keeping the site afloat.

I have no idea about the set up of the business, but have other avenues been considered for fund raising? I'm thinking here about Government grants for small businesses etc, and even about public listing on the stock market - AIM?
I know this in itself is costly and the spend may not reflect a benefit, but just a thought.

I think it has already been mentioned but I also like the idea of people being able to make a donation similar to a charity. Of course public apathy will play a part here.
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unwanted
Occasional Visitor


Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would it not be a good idea to alter the subscription page of the website and remove the line about "free Lifetime Subscription" (when you report a camera)... until you decide what you are going to do?
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exportman
Frequent Visitor


Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Posts: 261
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been on here for some time. I have lifetime membership. I think it is increasingly difficult to get the free membership now as the number of subscribers versus the number of new cameras must be diminished.

I still report what I think are new and mobiles as I travel around but there are not many and I have not been recorded as being the first on a new one as far as I know.

The only ones likely to get a submission are the workers who install them, I guess there may be a few of those on here now.

I would say over the time I have used the data base it has saved me a few pounds and points, and should I have to pay again I would.

However looking at the site profile there are 402129 registered users if only a quarter of them are paying GBP 20.00 a year thats over 200,000 plus possible income from the limited advertising. It is a popular site the stats show 253 users browsing the site as I type I guess I could find out what the financials are as the organisation is listed in companies house, but I am not really that bothered at present. I would have considered this a good business model at present the databases to PNDs plus the Apps and database to the new audience this must be bringing.
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bmuskett
Lifetime Member


Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
Changing the terms moving forwards is one thing, retrospectively removing benefits is another.

Whilst it may well have been naiive to offer them in the first place, removing them once awarded is not something we would countenance.

I think the key here is balance. A reward for reporting is entirely justified and reasonable. But a Life Membership has proved to be a millstone around our necks and it was short sighted I admit.

So don't make the same mistake again. You should think about rescinding current lifetime memberships, perhaps giving a year's notice. I'd be happy to give up mine.

Darren wrote:
I agree that a year's subscription is a fair reward and it could be earned ad-infinitum if a member continued to actively report.

I think that's the way to go.
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Darren
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unwanted wrote:
would it not be a good idea to alter the subscription page of the website and remove the line about "free Lifetime Subscription" (when you report a camera)... until you decide what you are going to do?

Until we've decided what would be the point? It's still currently up for grabs?
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Chilternphil
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Joined: Nov 07, 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand that you would be reluctant to change the T&Cs for existing life members, but that just causes another problem with fairness.

If no change is made to the existing life time members zero charge, then all the non-lifetime members (whether new or of long standing; actively reporting or not) end up paying extra to cover those who pay nothing; which drives up the cost to the paying members.

Several gracious existing lifetime members have already said in the forum that they would be willing to pay something. I think they are correct.

If you do not make a change you will end up with to my mind a divisive organisation with 'special' members who "did something" years ago (we want this service to be a long term success measured in years) and for that they get free services; and 'junior' members (or plebs in the current government parlance) who are allowed to pay for it all and have no way of ever qualifying for the 'special' category.

Only you know the numbers of people in the various categories and how this might play out in charges for the service. However obviously this model is not generating sufficient income to maintain the service hence the request in the newsletter.

Nothing in life will be fair for everyone but I encourage you to consider just a single category of membership applied to all, with encouragement and reward for those who contribute the most as I suggested in a previous posting.

Apologies to those people who have got free membership but surely you joined to make the world of motoring a better place and not to gain a small free benefit. I'm sure some transitional arrangements could help ease the reorganisation.
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oldfogy
Frequent Visitor


Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 252
Location: West Midlands. UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm, already lots of good suggestions, but my thoughts on the matter are these: -

1. Lifetime membership should definitely be terminated.
... If my bank can send me a change in conditions then why can't you?

2. Six months free membership per confirmed sighting seems fair and could be issued for per camera reported basis, with maybe a voucher being valid for up-to six months from the date of issue and redeemable at membership renewal or sign-up, if it was also transferable, that way a person could in fact either continue to report at least 2 cameras to continue a free membership, or give it to someone else, thus introducing a new person to the service who eventually may also have to start paying.

Lifetime membership, it was a very good idea when first introduced and has since obviously done it's job, but like most things in life and without going into all the whys and wherefores it's time for a change. (We know why it has to change, costs )

Unfortunately I never achieved lifetime membership but do not mind paying for the service for the hard work all the other people put into helping to contribute to saving my driving licence, but would also not like to see it increase from it's current payment level.

Maybe the answer is in how many people have only ever submitted just one or maybe even just two cameras as to how the current lifetime membership list could be pruned back?
Also how many of those people are actually still current members, so realistically how large is the live list?

The main problem here is the wording "Lifetime" maybe its time to also think about changing it to something like "Indefinite Period".

And I truly believe all those camera hunting members (who I for one applaud) will continue to hunt down new cameras regardless of membership status.
Then again you could always set up a hall of honour to post a list of those tireless members who submit cameras with no though of financial gain. (But for helping to getting one over on the establishment)
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14871
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmuskett wrote:
Darren wrote:
Changing the terms moving forwards is one thing, retrospectively removing benefits is another.

Whilst it may well have been naiive to offer them in the first place, removing them once awarded is not something we would countenance.

I think the key here is balance. A reward for reporting is entirely justified and reasonable. But a Life Membership has proved to be a millstone around our necks and it was short sighted I admit.

So don't make the same mistake again. You should think about rescinding current lifetime memberships, perhaps giving a year's notice. I'd be happy to give up mine.

Darren wrote:
I agree that a year's subscription is a fair reward and it could be earned ad-infinitum if a member continued to actively report.

I think that's the way to go.

OMG how have I come to this? - agreeing with bmuskett. What's the world coming to? Crying
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Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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burtonian
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Posts: 103
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of being accused of cross-posting with the Poll thread, we're in danger of missing arguments and suggestions ....

Regarding existing lifers, you either

1. rescind completely for everyone and resort to standard subscription
2. provide them with a lifetime reduced subscription
3. invite them to make a donation every year, possibly with a recommended amount

The first would result in increased income but may invite severe criticism and ill feeling. The second two would minimise the ill effects and still result in increased income.

We all seem to be in agreement that revising the current criteria is necessary in order to maintain a subscriber base. But as yet we (the general mob) don't understand the cost of providing the service, the current surplus or deficit, the need for additional income, and the ratio of lifers to subscribers, so gauging the effects on overall subs is not known (blimey I feel a Rumsfold moment coming on).
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chas820
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a fairly new member to the lifetime club I was a bit dismayed to find that you are thinking of changing it.However on reflection I wouldnt mind paying a reduced subscription,say 5/10 or whatever keeps the site afloat.Maybe you could offer the first year free to new spotters.Although I`m not a very active member I do promote the site when I can and I think keeping some incentive for spotters is a must.
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Darren
Pocket GPS Staff
Pocket GPS Staff


Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40
Posts: 23848
Location: Hampshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burtonian wrote:
But as yet we (the general mob) don't understand the cost of providing the service, the current surplus or deficit, the need for additional income, and the ratio of lifers to subscribers, so gauging the effects on overall subs is not known.

As a limited company we won't be divulging details such as that. As well as being commercially sensitive and possibly beneficial to our competitors, no other Limited company would, or would be expected to publish such information.

By discussing the issue and possible options we're simply trying to be as open as possible in choosing the option acceptable to the majority.
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Last edited by Darren on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CAA_0910135213
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Joined: Sep 10, 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 months or a year free would be sensible and worthwhile
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
As a limited company we won't be divulging details such as that. As well as being commercially sensitive and possibly beneficial to our competitors, no other Limited company would, or would be expected to publish such information.
I don't think that burtonian was suggesting that you did.
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