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Subscription Renewal & New Members.
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Roydaboy
Lifetime Member


Joined: May 12, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Northwest England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two pence worth.

Two things.

As a 'One Camera Lifer' I feel that there seems to be a bit of an attitude about us which is rather unpleasant. Sad My lifestyle and employment means that I only do about 12,000 miles a year. Almost all my mileage is done on the daily grind of plugging my way to and from work each day. Driving in my free time tends to be local as well, so I simply don't get the opportunity to flag up loads of locations. Only the occasional day trip or holiday takes me out of the usual local area. I suspect that this is actually the case for the vast majority of 'One Camera Lifers'.


OK moaning over.

As a Lifer I am quit happy to forgo the LFM if it will keep the site going. However, as many others have pointed out there still needs to be some incentive to camera spotters. So I am with GeoffCee and Burtonian, offer a 50% discount on the annual subs. That way there is still an income stream even from the Lifers.

Let's face it, the cost of the subs compared to the points on your licence is diddly squat, never mind the fine.

Personaly, I'd bring it in for all existing Lifers, although I can understand the teams reluctance to pull the plug on their existing Lifers.

Well that's my thoughts. Which ever way the team decide to jump I will still remain a member.
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burtonian
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Posts: 103
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dennis, I hope you'll re-read the rest of what I wrote in that earlier post. I believe we're already agreed that the existing award (note award, not perk) for new camera spotting must be curtailed and replaced by some other, short-term award. But completely removing existing awards may be counter-productive if many (not including me) are alienated so much that they refuse to pay full subs. So I disagree with you, offering reduced subs to existing lifers is not death by 1000 cuts, it's a practical way of getting additional regular income from all current lifers.

I have noted several comments on age and reduced mileage (this time I do include myself). I wonder how many of us only download the latest database a few times during the year, when we are going 'off patch', and whether this may be a reason why some non-subscribers baulk at paying (excellent value though it is)? So maybe there's a further option of increasing contributions by having a 'single download' charge?

I shall dive under the radar again now Very Happy
Tony
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bradders2
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Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 51
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there will have to be a form of encouragement or incentive to report cameras, otherwise the site may "wither on the vine" due to lack of new information, rather than death by 1000 cuts or otherwise.
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Chris B

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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Tired Old Man


Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14871
Location: Keynsham

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burtonian wrote:
Dennis, I hope you'll re-read the rest of what I wrote in that earlier post.
With that avatar you get my undivided attention - love it (and love driving through to get a whiff)!

The reason I wanted a poll, was for existing Lifers to vote on withdrawal. I said I expected overwhelming support. Sadly I was too incompetent to set up a poll to my precise specification, so the results are unclear - 2:1 in my favour just now, but I've no idea who's voted and I only know one Lifer who has - me! Several have posted that they'd happily forfeit Lifership, but I don't know if they've voted.

Counter-productive? - there was another contributor who pointed out that losing the membership of alienated Lifers wouldn't lose the site a penny - I can't remember if he was the guy who advised pgpsw to get with commercial reality? And others have opined that some get their Lifership then leave it alone, but the repeat submitters would carry on doing so, come Lifership or no. Like Marmite, innit? Love it or hate it! Twisted Evil

I think pgpsw have to come up with something which they can manage - it would be counterproductive if the existing admin became overwhelmed with a system of variable rates and variable periods. A simple withdrawal of Lifership puts an end to it. Award a six or twelve month extension for a qualifying submission, give existing Lifers the extension to start with.

Roydaboy be in no doubt that your subscription was valuable. The vast majority of members are just like you, make a submisiion if they come across one, but on regular driving never have the chance to spot more. Others, like me, are out and about all over the countryside, so naturally we get more oportunity to help the site. That's the way it is and you are no less a member than I and the other regulars, we just have different lifestyles (but I won't talk to you if I win the lottery this week!).

If I'm lucky, I'll get a call to go earn soon, so I'll probably hear the results of the "vigorous debate behind the scenes" whilst on mobile.
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Dennis

If it tastes good - it's fattening.

Two of them are obesiting!!
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Roydaboy
Lifetime Member


Joined: May 12, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Northwest England

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dennis,

Many thanks for the kind words.

I hope all this debate ends in PGPSW keeping going for a long time to come.
It is far to valuable a service to be allowed to fizzle out.

Roy
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Anita
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Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 3219
Location: Windlesham, Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
. . . I've no idea who's voted and I only know one Lifer who has - me!

Make that two! I voted for withdrawal as soon as the poll appeared.
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Anita
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burtonian
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Posts: 103
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see a fellow Marmite Mate! I don't think we're a million miles apart in our thinking, and I'm sure The Management will make the correct decision after taking all known views into consideration. As for the Poll - I hope the next election isn't decided on such a small turnout Very Happy
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Oldboy
Pocket GPS Moderator
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Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 10632
Location: Suffolk, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anita wrote:
Make that two!
Make that three. Wink
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
The Other Tired Old Man


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldboy wrote:
Anita wrote:
Make that two!
Make that three. Wink
Four Very Happy
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GeoffCee
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Posts: 56
Location: Telford, West Midlands

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
Anita, burtonian, GeoffCee, bradders2 and anyone else - the reason I wrote FULL recurring subscription was precisely because of these suggestions - it seems to me that awarding lifetime reduced subscriptions is introducing death by a thousand cuts instead of the axeman, just takes longer to go down. If Darren goes for volte face, reduced subs would be another millstone, just for the sake of save face!


I'll have to take your word on the "death by a thousand cuts" scenario as I'm not privy to the membership stats, nor do I know how many freeloaders (including myself) are benefiting from the contributions of others. What I am sure of is that in the five years or so that I've been a member of PGPSW there has not been an increase in the membership fee and neither have charges been introduced for accessing poi libraries.

This site sells information but it appears exceedingly naive in managing its affairs. Evidence of this is the over-generous way it has gone about rewarding its camera spotters and the current endless membership debate on a possible course for the future, which is running to 12 pages and counting.

When, if ever, will the Team get a grip on the situation, agree a plan, bring the endless jaw-jaw to a conclusion and simply deal with the financial mess PGPSW is in?

This site is worth saving and I would happily restore my contribution arrangements in full if that would ensure its survival.


Last edited by GeoffCee on Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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bradders2
Lifetime Member


Joined: Aug 30, 2007
Posts: 51
Location: Preston, Lancashire, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of GeoffCee, if that is what it takes to keep the site going supplying invaluable weekly updated database releases and all the other good things.
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Chris B

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robertkemp
Lifetime Member


Joined: Jan 04, 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it not possible to raise funds by selling a little more advertising space on what is a very popular web site??
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Oldboy
Pocket GPS Moderator
Pocket GPS Moderator


Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 10632
Location: Suffolk, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Oldboy"]
DennisN wrote:
Yes, I've been there, but I couldn't see anywhere for my membership ID? Does it by any chance know who I am?
Quote:
To 'extend your subscription' implies that the system knows who you are. Wink
If already a Subscriber, it remembers who you are, and when your subscription 'expires'.

I've just been there, done that, and it works. Smile

And whatever is decided, I will do it again if that is what it takes to keep this ship afloat.
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Richard

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sausages
Lifetime Member


Joined: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
A simple withdrawal of Lifership puts an end to it


"To prevent this thread going downhill any further, we've had a discussion and whatever happens with the lifer award for future subscribers, those who have been awarded to date will not lose their life member award. That is agreed and will not change"

The only realistic options are the traditional ones which face all businesses:

1/ Increase the fee to use the database.

2/ Increase the user base and keep the cost to use the database the same.

3/ Reduce the cost of maintaining the database.

Combination of all three with additional revenue streams.

Traditionally, option 3 is first - redundancies and reductions in overheads and expenditure.

Reduced costs may leave additional revenue which can be spent on option 2: increasing the user base.

Option 1 is an option of last resort as it could diminish the customer base.
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oldfogy
Frequent Visitor


Joined: May 08, 2006
Posts: 252
Location: West Midlands. UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For various reasons if the cost of subscription should increase I for one will not be renewing my subscription.

This decision is based on the fact I have continued over the last few years to renew my subscription out of habit more than anything and not out of really needing the camera database because since retiring I very rarely even go over 1,000 miles per year, (last year 700, the year before 800) and public transport from where I live to nearly everywhere I want to go is excellent.
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