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LesP2008
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Location: Herts
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 Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Why am i thinking pot ...kettle?  |
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BigPerk
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Location: East Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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What if TomTom's Live service actually gives route timings based on these actual average (excessive) traffic speeds ... might they be held to be encouraging speeding?  
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David
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Guivre46
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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Does this mean that IQ route timings are actually incorporating data from motorists who speed? I'd have thought it should be filtered so that no journey time can be less than one completed at the legal speed limit. The fact that NL police can use it this way must mean it is dodgy.
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Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
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Darren
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Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Guivre46 wrote: | | Does this mean that IQ route timings are actually incorporating data from motorists who speed? I'd have thought it should be filtered so that no journey time can be less than one completed at the legal speed limit. |
The data that is captured will have real world averages for every road.
The data used to for IQ routes and that is used in calculating a route would use those averages together with the legal permitted speeds.
| Quote: | | The fact that NL police can use it this way must mean it is dodgy. |
I presume that the data they would have access to is the raw average speed data before it is re-packaged and re-purposed for use in route calculation/IQ routes.
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Darren Griffin |
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andy1954
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Anybody want to buy a tomtom. |
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JimmyTheHand
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Galvany wrote: | | Sorry folks, but some of you accepting this are pretty naive. And whilst they've apologised, I cannot imagine that someone in TomTom did not envisage this would happen with the data. |
Or perhaps TomTom people are as naive as you'd paint others - people tend to be rather blinkered about alternative "uses" of their data/applications
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JimmyTheHand
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:08 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if the TomTom safety camera warnings will now be more accurate there?
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Galvany
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| sussamb wrote: | It's only used against motorists if they break the law  |
Using your argument, every piece of information logged about you should be used against you/others every time you break the law (or risk breaking the law). Data from your car's ECU should be downloaded every time you take it in for a service/repair, consolidated and used to support the law enforcement agencies against all drivers on your routes and with your car model.
Let's go beyond cars. We could consolidate information from cyclists (there are enough cameras to plot the extent to which cyclists obey the law in Central London, including following some cyclists). Start applying automatic fines to those who can be identified as breaking the law no matter what the circumstances. Some of that already exists for cars - some cameras in certain Central London locations are designed/located to target waiting cars in drop off areas, and fines are issued no matter what - even when there is no hazard or obstruction for anyone.
Your argument is akin to - "no harm done yet" and "nothing to fear if you're not breaking the law".
If you drive a car in the UK, can you assure me/us that you have never broken any laws? If you're a pedestrian user of GPS systems, can you assure us you've never trespassed on anyone's land? Would the consolidation of that data by TomTom on hikers be acceptable for use by the law enforcement agencies, or by private enterprises looking to trap hikers?
Though your post amused me, the implications are not funny at all. |
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Guivre46
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| Darren wrote: | | I presume that the data they would have access to is the raw average speed data before it is re-packaged and re-purposed for use in route calculation/IQ routes. |
I thought TT were selling data to assist with congestion management/emissions reduction. Why would they be selling raw data - they must know the implications of that? I need to untick the box TT Home displays about consenting to their collecting anonymised data from my device(s).
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Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
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IanS100
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Location: Southport
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| sussamb wrote: | | It's only used against motorists if they break the law |
But they're still wasting valuable time and money analysing data supplied free of charge by unwitting motorists in order that they can target areas that will give the best £4£ return, rather than targeting areas that have more accidents. They don't need data to discover the latter just the evidence of their own eyes, to quote the old cliché 'Speed doesn't kill, inappropriate speed kills'. Police forces are often noted for targeting areas where it's easy to catch motorists and not necessarily areas that are noted for accidents! |
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BigPerk
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Location: East Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 'Speed doesn't kill, inappropriate speed kills' |
True, but travelling above the speed limit surely needs some special skill as to whether it is appropriate? Are the speeders to be relied upon, by the rest of us using the same road, to be skilled judges (not the ones I've seen)? And speed limits are sometimes there for 'calming' reasons too, as well as pure safety, of course.
But '£4£' apart (we'll always have that moan) doesn't it actually make sense (we pay for these things in the end) to put speed checks in where endemic speeding is taking place, rather than where there is just the odd motorist surfing?
Accidents are 'data' just as speeding is. Polices' 'own eyes' aren't everywhere all the time - I would certainly agree with an effort to match the two when deciding on camera siting.
And this data IS anonymous, NOT a spy on individuals' freedoms (to endanger the rest of us, it would seem sometimes). Just like insurance data - I might object to moves to penalise individuals on the basis of personal medical risk, but not to the use of anonymous lifetime statistics to spread the risk costs. I would hope that this data IS sold to the police, NOT donated - brings costs down to the satnav customer (ideally ). AS LONG AS THEY MAKE IT CLEAR.
Yes, of course people are free to opt out if they are unhappy, but I bet they will be quick to complain about the usefulness of Live services if everyone else does the same  !
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David
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Kremmen
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Darren
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Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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As I posted on Page 1. And full of inaccuracies and wild claims.
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Darren Griffin |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| JimmyTheHand wrote: | | I wonder if the TomTom safety camera warnings will now be more accurate there? |
 Like it! Do you do standup comedy too? 
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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BigPerk
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Location: East Hertfordshire
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose I ought to defend CNET - a really useful site I use a lot. But I did love one quote, which MUST have been from the guy that runs it (I'm not showing MY photo  ) | Quote: | | Will our refrigerators start monitoring how many pies we've eaten? |
He's even bigger than me
If one could suspend disbelief briefly, I think this is valid though | Quote: | | to place speed cameras at dangerous locations where the average speed is higher than the legally allowed speed limit |
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David
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