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Before buying Tom Tom read this.
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Crocodile
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Joined: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Before buying Tom Tom read this. Reply with quote

Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
The following dialogue between Tom Tom "support" & myself may help in your decision making process:

Customer 03/06/2004 11.23 AM
Having just purchased Tom Tom 3 I am disappointed to find that crucial mapping data is missing. On 26/06/03 the A134 was re-routed between 5099390E/226608N & 598907E/228175N. The existing route was closed to through traffice & is policed by a camera. In addition the roundabouts at 5099382E/226420N & 5099260E/226452N were replaced with traffic lights & extra junctions. This means that Tom Tom is unable to navigate this route.

As the new road forms the primary route for 95% of my journeys, this renders Tom Tom virtually unusable for any journey to/from home.

What do you suggest?


Response (Robert Johnson) 05/06/2004 08.17 PM
You might wish to notify our digital map provider of this issue at the website below:

https://www.teleatlas.com/template_feedback.jsp?ctype=support_feedback_pda&contentpage=EnterPDARequest.jsp

We hope to have answered your question to your satisfaction.
With best regards,

The TomTom Customer Support Team


Customer 05/06/2004 08.31 PM
I find your response deeply disappointing. Matters relating to the provision of mapping data by a 3rd party are strictly between you & the supplier. I have not purchased a Teleatlas product, I have purchased a Tom Tom product.

I would be grateful if you would address the issue of YOUR product being virtually unusable for me.


Response (Robert Johnson) 05/06/2004 08.41 PM
Tele Atlas is our map supplier for digital mapping and they are dependent upon government and other sources. If the data supplied is incorrect or invalid or in error then the only way to rectify this is to let the map maker know of this issue. We have reported this issue as of today to the digital map provider.

We hope to have answered your question to your satisfaction.
With best regards,

The TomTom Customer Support Team


Customer 05/06/2004 08.49 PM
OK, one last try.

1) I have purchased Tom Tom 3.

2) For me, Tom Tom 3 does not work.

3) How do Tom Tom propose to address this issue?

Or are you suggesting that I should be content to be able to use the product on only 5% of journeys?


Response (Robert Johnson) 05/06/2004 11.07 PM
There are over 200000 roads in the UK and Northern Ireland so we totally disagree with your analysis because if such were the case then we would not be in business in the UK selling thousands of our products.

You mentioned a fault in the map but that does not indicate to us that this is crucial map data for the entire UK. If you do not believe your product is suitable for purpose then you have rights under UK law to demand a refund at the place of purchase.

We hope to have answered your question to your satisfaction.
With best regards,

The TomTom Customer Support Team


Customer 06/06/2004 12.09 PM
The number of roads in the UK is of no relevance whatsoever as I only live in 1 road. In order to make any journey to the south of my home using Tom Tom, I have to make a 3 mile detour via the north. I have given you ample opportunity to make an appropriate response to my problem but you have clearly demonstrated a typical corporate UK response of "we've had your money, we don't care". I shall indeed return the product for refund.

I shall also post full details of this correspondence to all technical forums to which I subscribe so that anyone else considering purchasing a Tom Tom product can be fully aware of your concept of customer service.
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Deadly_Jowl
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Joined: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Sheffield, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I can understand your frustration, I don't see what more TomTom can do. They have notified their map supplier (although I would also do so if I were you)

I found a route-redirection yesterday near my house that tried to send me through a street that has been blocked for thru traffic for as long as I can remember. it made me laugh.

having said that, it wasn't a major hassle for me and most of my journies are accurate....though some are a bit strange!

I would have thought that no GPS maps will be 100% accurate...though perhaps TomTom is not the one for you.
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Deadly_Jowl
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Joined: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Sheffield, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, see this thread...

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4670

Again, I DO understand you frustration....it just that most things in life aren't perfect...(though I come damn close Wink )
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lbendlin
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Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59
Posts: 11878
Location: Massachusetts, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomTom have offered you a refund. Not the best solution, but certainly one you should consider if the application is not satisfying you. Compared to other exchanges with TomTom support you had a pretty professional answer, and you should honour that.

The question "who is responsible for map data" is as old as the industry. You can discuss it to death, but you can also spend your energy on something more productive (like notifying TeleAtlas)
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DavidW
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Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21
Posts: 3747
Location: Bedfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These products always have map errors - that is both outright errors and places where the mapping hasn't caught up to road changes.

The best you can do is report them so that they're fixed in the next release. If this error really makes the product unsuitable for you, take the refund you've been offered. There's an annoying map error in Navigator 2 near where I live that hasn't been fixed in Navigator 3 - I shall make sure I report it again in the hope it's fixed in Navigator 4.

Be aware that there's a fair chance of the same error existing in all TeleAtlas based products.


I've also found some real weirdness in Dunstable, Bedfordshire. In the Great_Britain map, there's several areas where quite a few public roads are mysteriously marked as 'not for navigation' in Navigator 3 (they were fine in Navigator 2). It looks like there may be some odd corruption here - I shall be reporting that to TeleAtlas too.


By the way, I edited your link just to remove the sid part of the URL - if people click a link containing an sid, all sorts of session related weirdness can happen. If you want to post a link, just delete the sid part of the URL.



David
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spile
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Joined: May 08, 2004
Posts: 163

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pragmatically, is it a problem that a road near your house has errors?

Once you've got over the fun factor of GPS, don't you ignore instructions for known routes?

Brett
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Crocodile
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Posts: 196

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 8:34 pm    Post subject: Dear All Reply with quote

For the record, if you re-read the original post you will see that Tom Tom have NOT offered a refund. What Tom Tom have offered is:

1) "It's nothing to do with us guv, we simply take your money."

2) "It's still nothing to do with us"

3) "Take it back to the retailer" This is categorically NOT offering a refund.

As for other points raised, I fully accept that Tom Tom are at the mercy of their chosen supplier. That's not my issue with them. My issue is that they blatantly couldn't care less about me as a customer. Can you imagine taking a new car back to the dealer because it wasn't working properly only to be told "sorry mate, we don't make that part, you'll have to make do".

What else could they have done? They could have gratiously accepted a problem with their product & made some sort of gesture as recompense. That could have been an initial recommendation to return the product together with their apology, an offer to upgrade at no cost to the next release or any number of other options. As far as I'm concerned Tom Tom had plenty of opportunity to respond in a customer friendly manner - they simply chose not to.

Is it a problem being near home? Yes, very much so. The product was purchased for the missus who has only just passed her test & needs all the help she can get. Being directed to drive into a street restricted to bus use isn't really what I was looking to achieve from GPS.

I'm not looking for an everlasting debate here. The purpose of this posting was warn potential purchasers what to expect from Tom Tom. If a 1000 satisfied Tom Tom customers want to shoot me down that's fine but it doesn't change my experience.

Thank you & goodnight!
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Tim Buxton
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Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bl wrote:
Pragmatically, is it a problem that a road near your house has errors?

Once you've got over the fun factor of GPS, don't you ignore instructions for known routes?

Brett


In my opinion, yes it does matter. If you bought a new car and one of the wheels didn't rotate, but you could still drive it, would you not still want the wheel fixed?
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bigfatjohn
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Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 114
Location: Market Harborough

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that what this is all about - a solitary bus only road????

1. Get you wife off the road. If she can't find her way home she isn't bright enough to be driving at all.

2. Learn how to put a road blockage in.

3. Get another job. You haven't got enough to do.


PS. Your car dealer is also restricted in what they can do under warranty by their suppliers - the manufacturer. If you don't like the service your recourse is the same - to the retailer and not the manufacturer.
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a4ace
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Joined: 19/08/2003 21:28:03
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Location: Geneva, Switzerland

PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

high expectations can really frustrate a lot. gps navigation is a very useful and practical product. it has helped me a lot. i am pretty bad with directions and having tomtom with me really puts away the stress of going from A to B. but tomtom (and the other navigation products) should say somewhere that no map will be 100% accurate. they do say that tomtom "does not by any means substitute the need for careful steering and good judgement." but whenever they say tomtom "uses the latest and highly accurate digital maps from tele atlas nv," people will be misled.

i do understand that no map will be 100% accurate. i do understand that i the driver must still use proper judgement. the map providers will not correct their maps if they are not told. i encourage everyone to report map errors. it will help the map providers, and in the end, will help us all.
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spile
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you bought a new car and one of the wheels didn't rotate, but you could still drive it, would you not still want the wheel fixed?


The situation you have described is more akin to getting poor radio reception under 240,000v pylon.

And no I wouldn't take my car back for that.

Brett
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a4ace
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Dear All Reply with quote

Crocodile wrote:
Is it a problem being near home? Yes, very much so. The product was purchased for the missus who has only just passed her test & needs all the help she can get. Being directed to drive into a street restricted to bus use isn't really what I was looking to achieve from GPS.

a permanent avoid should solve this problem. but i don't think tomtom saves avoid areas. could be a good enhancement request.
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Tomo
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Location: Fife Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like other posters suggest if the road is local to you then you know to ignore its directions. You drive the legal route around the now bus only road and then it re-routes for you within a matter of seconds. No where on the Tom Tom packaging does it say that you are allowed to drive with your eyes shut. Will you complain if the Police close the road and TomTom still wants to drive through it?

Did you used to buy a-z's? were they always accurate?

and IF it was bought for your wife then if she has only been driving a matter of weeks then having a satnav system in the car is just another distraction that she doesnt need when she should be learning to concentrate on watching the road.

What is it that you want TomTom to do about your problem? If they fix your problem then they will have to fix everyones problems which ultimatly isnt there fault as they are given the map data by a 3rd party. Im sure that TomTom give the mapping company as much grief about errors as the general public give them grief.

Steve
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flinty99
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Joined: Jun 07, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:32 pm    Post subject: Well I'm sorry your sad, but I'm happy Reply with quote

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. My experience was the same when I first purchased my system back in May 2003. My home, work and key supplier addresses were all missing, and was I Evil or Very Mad. I complained to TomTom & TeleAtlas and now with Version 3 all have now been resolved :D . But did it stop me from using the system, well no, I found the nearest roads available which were a very short distance away and navigated to them. I figured if I couldn’t make the last 100 yards I needed more than a GPS to help me.
In addition my GPS receiver packed up on May 20th, two weeks after having owned the system for 12 months. I contacted TomTom and to my surprise I found that I had a 2 year warrantee, not just the standard 12 months. TomTom arranged for the faulty system to be collected and within 5 days I had a fully working system again.
Bottom line is, when TomTom can help and resolve something in their control they do. They have links on their web site to report map issues – use it, it may just help.
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lbendlin
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: Dear All Reply with quote

a4ace wrote:

a permanent avoid should solve this problem. but i don't think tomtom saves avoid areas. could be a good enhancement request.


Actually TomTom is one of the few programs that saves the permanent avoids and considers them for all future route calculations. I say "considers" because it's not always possible to avoid the area completely when there are not enough alternatives.
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