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Pocket GPS World :: View topic - US Senators call for removal of drink-drive apps
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US Senators call for removal of drink-drive apps
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PedroStephano
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Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Posts: 44
Location: South Herts (NOT London!)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:45 pm    Post subject: @Phillip - am I deluded too? Reply with quote

@Phillip if you read my post you might conclude that I am a responsible law abiding family man and also a responsible member of society who chooses to not speed, drive safely and defensively, and use the database to remind me in a consistent manner of the speed limit. If however you read your post, I am deluded because I use the database. I'm sorry to have to say this, but I prefer my own opinion. I'm not deluded.
And your point about roadside speed signs ignores the fact that much discussion takes place here and elsewhere about the inconsistencies and absences that occur re signages. Thus the signs are imperfect. As is the database. However, I put to you that the database is closer to perfection than the signs...
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MaFt
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 14797
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a very wide road near me. the pavement is 5m wide plus the houses that line it have long driveways. this is a 30 but feels more like a 40 or a 50.

there is another road with relatively thin pavements and old terraced houses that go straight to the pavement. this is a 40 but feels more like a 30 or even a 20.

both these roads have speed cameras on them.

signs are great but when the area you are driving in seems to have such a random speed limit it's not always easy to know the exact limit.

MaFt
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bmuskett
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Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 710
Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip wrote:
Please. You can't really be that deluded. The ONLY reason that the vast majority of people subscribe to the PGPSW database is to be able to exceed the speed limit without getting caught.

Anyone that relies on a speed camera database to be able to exceed the speed limit without getting caught is deluded.

Because despite the accuracy of the fixed cameras and the number of mobile camera locations in the PGPSW database, there is absolutely no guarantee that there won't be a safety partnership van or a policeman with a radar gun right around the next bend.

The ONLY way to guarantee not getting caught speeding is to stay within the speed limit.
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PedroStephano
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Stay within Reply with quote

@bmuskett to stay within the speed limit you have to know the speed limit. This means you have to watch the signs (which are unreliable) and watch your surroundings (which are unreliable). I watch the signs, the environment AND the database. All three add up to reliability. Because of the latter.

I am quite sure you've been driving in a situation where suddenly you become aware that you DON'T know the limit here and now. What happens then?
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 10118
Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Stay within Reply with quote

PedroStephano wrote:
I am quite sure you've been driving in a situation where suddenly you become aware that you DON'T know the limit here and now. What happens then?
You get done for driving without due care and attention, or possibly 3 pts and 60 fine for speeding Very Happy
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NickG
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Joined: Nov 09, 2003
Posts: 357
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
...and you subscribe to our database.... why?

MaFt

I don't any more as far as I know Smile The only time I've bought your data was for a non-technical friend who wanted me to put it on their TomTom Go for them (I no longer own a TomTom as I use the iPhone, which AFAIK doesn't even support the POI file).

In fact I have the speed warning set up in TomTom on my iPhone so that it alerts me if I exceed the speed limit, whether the cameras are there or not! I do not see any need to be alerted ONLY when a camera is present, except if you're trying to speed in the gaps in between. Cameras do not usually photograph you if you're not speeding, so there's no need to be notified of their presence if you don't generally speed.


Last edited by NickG on Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PedroStephano
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah but you see I don't. I don't speed and I concentrate on the road as much as humanly possible. And for just 20 a year I get an electronic black box that rapidly alerts me of the known and unknown. I wouldn't say I'm deluded. I'd say I'm #winning. And I've got the clean license and 14yrs NCB to prove it. Not deluded, #winning
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bmuskett
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Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Stay within Reply with quote

PedroStephano wrote:
@bmuskett to stay within the speed limit you have to know the speed limit. This means you have to watch the signs (which are unreliable) and watch your surroundings (which are unreliable). I watch the signs, the environment AND the database. All three add up to reliability. Because of the latter.

The database does not tell you what the speed limit is at all times. And it's not even a reliable guide when a camera warning sounds. It might be for an off route camera with a different speed limit.

I'm not saying that the database isn't a useful reminder to check your speed when you get an alert. What I am saying is that you can't drive over the speed limit and rely on the database to warn you without fail of approaching cameras.

PedroStephano wrote:
I am quite sure you've been driving in a situation where suddenly you become aware that you DON'T know the limit here and now. What happens then?

Er, I don't think so. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I do try to pay attention to the speed limit when I'm driving. But relying on a satnav to govern your speed is as bad as blindly following its directions. You could end up in trouble either way.
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bmuskett
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Location: Stockport, Cheshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickG wrote:
In fact I have the speed warning set up in TomTom on my iPhone so that it alerts me if I exceed the speed limit, whether the cameras are there or not!

Are you aware that the speed limits in the TomTom maps are not always present or correct?
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bmuskett
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PedroStephano wrote:
Ah but you see I don't. I don't speed and I concentrate on the road as much as humanly possible.

But you still find yourself in the situation where you don't know what the speed limit is and need the database to remind you? I'd find that worrying.

PedroStephano wrote:
And for just 20 a year I get an electronic black box that rapidly alerts me of the known and unknown. I wouldn't say I'm deluded. I'd say I'm #winning. And I've got the clean license and 14yrs NCB to prove it. Not deluded, #winning

And as you're a lifetime member it's not even costing you that. But it's the unknown unknowns you need to worry about, i.e. the cameras the database doesn't know about.

(edited to add unknown unknowns link)
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BigPerk
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
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Location: East Hertfordshire

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do try to pay attention to the speed limit when I'm driving.
Well, I'd hope this is true for all of us who are trying to be law-abiding (rather than deliberately flouting the law). But, as you also say
Quote:
I'm not saying I'm perfect
neither are the rest of us.

In circumstances when the limit changes repeatedly and frequently over a single stretch of road, is changed right on a roundabout thickly-forested in other signs, repeater warnings are missing/obscured over an extended distance, or there is poor visibility at night, THAT'S when I do occasionally become unsure ...

... and when that revered species of human kind, the aged-relative passenger, suddenly chirps up EXACTLY as I drive past a NEW speed limit sign and camera, just reduced from 40 to 30, I have indeed been guilty momentarily of
Quote:
...driving without due care and attention
and have accordingly received
Quote:
3 pts and 60 fine for speeding
Usually, some eagle-eyed PGPSW-spotter has been there before me, so if I HAD had the data on that occasion I would have been warned!!

So despite the fact that I try to have all the PGPSW camera warnings
Quote:
I AM NOT DELUDED Twisted Evil Cool

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BigPerk
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS - I've just realised this topic is about drink-drive apps - how long have we all been going OTT?? Shocked Laughing
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bmuskett
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigPerk wrote:
PS - I've just realised this topic is about drink-drive apps - how long have we all been going OTT?? Shocked Laughing

A long time, but Darren and MaFt have been in on it too, so keep quiet and maybe no-one will notice...
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PedroStephano
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:12 pm    Post subject: Would happily pay Reply with quote

I can proudly say that I DID pay my 20 this year, having only just recently been the beneficiary of the lifers award (thanks PGPSW :-) ) and I have proved in multiple posts that I don't speed or drive carelessly or irresponsibly. I am also certain that the pilots flying overhead do not just use navigational dead reckoning to determine their velocity and route, but every technological gadget known to man to keep them safe and informed behind the stick.
For as long as the database is legal to access and use, I will continue to utilise the added safety that it gives me, my family, my livelihood, my licence and my NCB. And I will continue to support the fine work of PGPSW. To the point of paying even if I am a lifer. That's how much I want to keep it.
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scarsdale037
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Joined: Jul 31, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaFt wrote:
NickG wrote:
Why do people need know where speed cameras ... are?

because the government tell us that they are placed in accident black spots (and many are) so by alerting to where cameras are we are alerting to dangerous places and thus aiding road safety.
MaFt

Let's not confuse the issues of speed cameras and drink-drive traps. I agree with the above point re speed cameras and black spots, but alerts for drink drive traps is another matter. Most people should agree that avoiding drink drive traps is morally unacceptable because it allows drink drivers to get away with it. Although it isn't illegal, shouldn't the Googles of this world act responsibly and take them down; this would make in unnecessary for Govts to waste time and money adding yet another law to the books.
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