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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Agree with Falkirk there.
I'm subscribed to Petrolprices.com's bi-weekly (I think) email updates, and the prices are always spot on, and accurately give the cheapest locations nearest to my registered address.
TT have taken a lot of flak over the dreadful quality of the data up to now (often from me!), but why they seem to be abandoning the service rather than switch to a better data provider is a mystery.
Edited for clarity (I had too many "they"s, referring to both TT and PetrolPrices.com)
Last edited by Andy_P on Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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WackyRaces Banned
Joined: Aug 04, 2010 Posts: 172 Location: Banned Member Using New ID
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Why don't TomTom just fire their current unreliable data suppliers for fuel prices (Inrix and Opis) and then take data for the service from reliable suppliers in those counties where such reliable date exists (eg petrolprices.com in the UK who are successfully selling their App for the Iphone because their service actually works properly with very reliable data).
Also in Navcore 9 TomTom seems to have even withdrawn address and phone information for petrol stations since it can only be accessed through the further i/information button and this does not work whenever Live service no longer has a data connection or sometimes even when it does.
Andy_P wrote: | They have taken a lot of flak over the dreadful quality of the data up to now (often from me!), but why TT would abandon the service rather than switch to a better data provider is a mystery. |
As it so happens I had actually found TomTom's fuel prices a lot more accurate for the majority of big garages in the last few weeks and the only real problems were being caused by certain rogue stations that didn't update prices for either weeks or months or that had closed down either temporarily (for retanking and rebuilding) or that had gone out of business - these were frequently those showing the cheapest prices. It might have helped if they had quoted a date for each price that they listed or if the software had been programmed not to include any fuel price in the listings where the price was more than 2 days old.
Last edited by WackyRaces on Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:48 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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WackyRaces wrote: |
Also in Navcore 9 TomTom seems to have even withdrawn address and phone information for petrol stations since it can only be accessed through the further i/information button and this does not work whenever Live service no longer has a data connection or sometimes even when it does. |
Although the phone numbers are missing for lots of petrol stations, the system is still working.
I just looked for cheapest petrol near me and the third and forth ones in the list still had the "Call" button working, but most didn't.
Last edited by Andy_P on Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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WackyRaces Banned
Joined: Aug 04, 2010 Posts: 172 Location: Banned Member Using New ID
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Andy_P wrote: | I just looked for cheapest petrol near me and the third and forth ones in the list still had the "Call" button working. |
Unfortunately TomTom seem to have no ability to maintain any kind of database accurately (including sorting out apparent database corruption such as the lost addresses and phone numbers for the petrol stations) and there seems to be no one on their board who cares about this sort of thing or is chasing hard for it to be put right.
Even if they won't do the fuel prices any more with no address now being shown for the individual POIs you are now being forced to effectively navigate blind to your nearest petrol station with the only way to find out where it is being to Browse Map. |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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I picked a random location on the map (London NW10) and looked for petrol stations near there.
Of the first 20 stations listed:
9 had no extra details
9 had the phone number ("Call" button active)
2 had the address and phone number ("Call" and "Show info" buttons" both active)
I've no idea whether it has always been like this or if the details are actually being removed, but I don't see why they'd do that.
I don't reckon it has got any worse, but that it was just always pretty ropey. |
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WackyRaces Banned
Joined: Aug 04, 2010 Posts: 172 Location: Banned Member Using New ID
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Andy_P wrote: | I don't reckon it has got any worse, but that it was just always pretty ropey. |
But at least you didn't previously have to use Show Info (which now retrieves its data over the GPRS connection) and if they had a phone number address it was shown in the one single POI screen that did not need any data retrieval activity. That also meant you always had the data even if the Live Services had gone belly up or you were currently out of GPRS coverage. |
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Andy_P Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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WackyRaces wrote: |
But at least you didn't previously have to use Show Info |
"Didn't previously" when?
As far as I know, ever since the fuel prices service has been available, if it is installed then it takes over from the normal Petrol Stations POI.
For a while, both icons were shown on the map, but their "hide any other POIs near a Fuel Prices petrol station" kludge fixed that.
So how else could you check an address other than using the "more info" button? |
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WackyRaces Banned
Joined: Aug 04, 2010 Posts: 172 Location: Banned Member Using New ID
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Andy_P wrote: | So how else could you check an address other than using the "more info" button? |
All I remember is that a phone number and address was previously shown with the map of the POI where you could either select to Navigate to it or not and now you have to press another button in that screen for the phone number and address to be revealed and that now the data seems to come from the Live servers instead of being stored on the device itself so if it does appear at all it means a scrolling circle and takes ages to appear.
Last edited by WackyRaces on Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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WackyRaces Banned
Joined: Aug 04, 2010 Posts: 172 Location: Banned Member Using New ID
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:26 am Post subject: Re: TT Fuel Price feature is discontinued |
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falkirk81 wrote: | I note from the link below that the Fuel Price feature is being stopped. |
But the same page also says:-
Quote: | Devices connecting to MyTomTom
The following navigation devices connect to MyTomTom:
GO LIVE 1005, GO 1005, GO LIVE 1000, GO 1000, Via LIVE 120, Via 125/120/110, Sony XNV
We are currently introducing MyTomTom for the latest generation of TomTom devices. MyTomTom helps you manage the contents and services of your navigation device.
Some features are not yet available but will be in the near future.
Backing up
Currently this functionality is not available for your device.
Adding POIs
Currently this functionality is not available for your device. |
So far as I can see all of these statements relate only to the 10xx series and not to the x40 or x50 Live series. Clearly our units can back up and do have the ability to add POIs and do also have a fuel price service at the present time.
I agree that the fact that the fuel price service is not available on the 10XX series cannot be good news for its likely future quality and completeness on the x40 and x50 Live series and that at some point a termination date for its continuation may well have been set but given the problem of retailing concepts such as a product being "fit for purpose" etc I think you may find the fuel price service continues for some while yet on the x40 and x50 series.
This web page does not in any case appear to contain brand new information but merely information that has been there ever since the 10XX series first went on sale in the UK. The fact that there is no mention of the subsequently publicly stated intention of TomTom to introduce POI support by the end of January 2011 only rather tends to confirm this. |
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MaFt Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15145 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Just to throw something else into the mix here...
Are fuel prices that important these days? With diesel costing £1.32 a litre and petrol £1.26 then 1-3p per litre difference isn't really much. Most local fuel stations will differ only by 1p in my experience. That's 0.75% difference.
Go back 10 years when fuel was nearer 60p per litre then that 1p difference was 1.6%.
On 100 litres with 1p difference in price you are only paying £1 more. At 60p a litre it made £60 become £61. At £1.32 a litre it makes £132 become £133.
The actual difference it makes isn't that much when you look at it.
Or do other areas differ more in price?
MaFt |
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PaulB2005 Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006 Posts: 9323 Location: Durham, UK
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Around here the price of a litre of petrol can vary by 10p depending on where you go. For example PetrolPrices website shows cheapest at 123.90p and the most expensive at 133.90p today.
If I filled up say 50 litres that's a fiver difference. |
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WackyRaces Banned
Joined: Aug 04, 2010 Posts: 172 Location: Banned Member Using New ID
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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When prices have recently gone up a lot there is usually less difference in price between places off the motorways or main A road dual carriageways as everybody tries to get the best deal for a little while after a big price increase. Once prices have stabilised the average customer becomes complacent and some petrol stations start charging 3 or 4p per litre more than others.
But even at the moment the big motorway or trunk A road dual carriageway sites will usually be charging 3p to 4p per litre more than any of the most competitive petrol stations off the motorway/trunk A road. Even at 50 litres per week consumption. that seems to be enough to more than repay the annual cost of the Live services. |
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DennisN Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:42 am Post subject: |
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MaFt wrote: | Are fuel prices that important these days? With diesel costing £1.32 a litre and petrol £1.26 then 1-3p per litre difference isn't really much. |
Good point MaFt. The only significant difference nowadays is between off road and Motorway Services and surely we all know about that 10p difference? My operating costs are 18.6p a mile, of which 'only' 8.85p is diesel. At the beginning of 2007, those figures were respectively 18.34p and 6.33p (diesel was around 90p a litre). I get between 11 and 13 miles to the litre, so 1p is very minor.
It's important to understand that turning off course even by a small distance is not always cost effective. And letting the fuel gauge go down very low is unwise - fill up when 'you're' at a cheap fuel station on route rather than driving on until 'you' are getting desperate and have no option but to use the only available one. Doing a lot of mileage to all four corners of the UK, I have the opportunity to 'cash in' on locally cheaper fuel if I keep my eyes open for comparisons. _________________ Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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WackyRaces Banned
Joined: Aug 04, 2010 Posts: 172 Location: Banned Member Using New ID
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:55 am Post subject: |
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DennisN wrote: | The only significant difference nowadays is between off road and Motorway Services |
What about the little local village petrol station in a village that is not on an A road but only on a B or an unclassified road. I find that these places selling petrol under obscure little known petrol brands are often still charging another 3p per litre on top of the prevailing competitive off the motorway per litre petrol price.
Trunk A road dual carriageways are also more complicated as they usually charge reasonably competitive prices at any garages on the trunk road when it is passing by a large town centre with competitive prices (eg especially on a roundabout that also intersects with another main road in to the town) but then return to highway robbery once you are out in the depths of the countryside. |
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WackyRaces Banned
Joined: Aug 04, 2010 Posts: 172 Location: Banned Member Using New ID
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
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According to www.petrolprices.com the nearest garage to me in my local village 1 mile away is charging 130.9 per litre. The main national brand garages in the nearby towns 7 to 9 miles away are charging 129.9p per litre but two garages (from large national brands at busy petrol stations where the data is normally reliably maintained by www.petrolprices.com ) 15 miles away are charging 125.9p per litre.
That's not what I would call only a 1p per litre difference.
None of the petrol stations I have mentioned are on either a motorway or a trunked (Highways Agency rather than local authority maintained) dual carriageway. Those will presumably be the unspecified most expensive petrol stations within 20 miles of me on www.petrolprices.com at 133.9p per litre. |
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