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where is your sat nav?
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exportman
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Joined: Mar 26, 2006
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

It appears that the users of this forum who have cared to comment are also very sensible users.Exclamation I don not have a problem with the thing stuck to the screen, as long as it is above or below the drivers line of sight. The problem with putting it just below the mirror is that it can block your view of supprisingly big objects. Add a set of furry dice too or a dangling CD and basically you can not see anything more than 30 degrees to your left.

A vehicle emerging from a junction a child on a crossing,a door opening on a parked vehicle...... all invisible to you. Shocked result an accident and the statment that all bike riders have burned into their brains. Sorry Mate I Did Not See You. No [email protected]@dy wonder. Rolling Eyes
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spook51
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
spook51 wrote:
I still maintain screen mounts should be banned.
I don't have a problem with banning "In line of sight" mountings. But look again at my picture - I have to look away from my line of sight, effectively as far out of line as looking at my rear view mirror. What's wrong with that?


Line of sight is a straight line between the eye and an object. Block your line of sight and you can't see the object - you can't look away from your line of sight, it's whichever direction you're looking.

Any device stuck on the windscreen blocks the driver's line of sight when they're looking in that direction and obscures areas within the field of view - the nearer the device to the driver's eye, the more the field of view is reduced and the greater the area obscured.

The problem with screen mounts is that irrespective of where they are placed, they obscure areas within the field of view and (based on my observations when driving) are more often than not placed in a position that significantly reduces the driver's field of view.

A car will fail it's MoT test with anything other than the tax disc fixed to its windscreen within the wipers' arc (not sure of the exact wording). That's sensible and should be applied to screen mount positioning i.e. not within the wipers' arc; that would make screen mounts acceptable to me however, that's quite difficult (I've tried). If it is possible it can place the SatNav out of reach making operation difficult or dangerous.

As far as your own installation is concerned Dennis, if I was at the wheel of your van I'd be more concerned about information overload!
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
Line of sight is a straight line between the eye and an object. Block your line of sight and you can't see the object
That's a spurious argument in this case - my belly is in my line of sight when I go to the little boy's room, but it's not a problem when I'm driving. My rear view mirror is bigger than any other item on my windscreen, but to consider it as blocking my line of sight is laughable. Rolling Eyes
spook51 wrote:
As far as your own installation is concerned Dennis, if I was at the wheel of your van I'd be more concerned about information overload!
Don't worry about it - I'm going to get Vera to knit me a steering wheel cover which isn't a tube, but a disc, which will block the view of all those distractions like speedo, rev counter, odometer, fuel gauge and whatever all those other funny things are - I've temporarily covered them all with a D shaped piece of cardboard until she does me a colour coded, more aesthetically pleasing one. Cool
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spook51
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DennisN wrote:
spook51 wrote:
Line of sight is a straight line between the eye and an object. Block your line of sight and you can't see the object
That's a spurious argument in this case - my belly is in my line of sight when I go to the little boy's room, but it's not a problem when I'm driving. My rear view mirror is bigger than any other item on my windscreen, but to consider it as blocking my line of sight is laughable. Rolling Eyes

But it undeniably does. If what you want to look at is hidden by your interior mirror you move your head so you can see it, i.e. your line of sight changes. If you remove your interior mirror so that you can see what you wanted to see, your line of sight remains the same - your mirror was blocking your original line of sight.

Hopefully when you go to the little boy's room you know from past experience what tool you need, how to operate it with precision, approximately for how long it needs to be operated and how to safely stow it afterwards. Not really a valid comparison with driving when the unexpected can happen at any time and might have fatal consequences for yourself and others.

DennisN wrote:
spook51 wrote:
As far as your own installation is concerned Dennis, if I was at the wheel of your van I'd be more concerned about information overload!
Don't worry about it - I'm going to get Vera to knit me a steering wheel cover which isn't a tube, but a disc, which will block the view of all those distractions like speedo, rev counter, odometer, fuel gauge and whatever all those other funny things are - I've temporarily covered them all with a D shaped piece of cardboard until she does me a colour coded, more aesthetically pleasing one. Cool


Don't you think some quaint little knitted SatNav cosies would look sweet for when you're not using them?

As for instruments, KISS is my philosophy - for example, I only need to know my car's water and oil temperature when they're too low or too high. Same with oil pressure, amps., voltage etc. etc. yet I have gauges that tell me them all the time - a simple warning light would do, it's all I get when my screen washer bottle needs refilling or the car's coolant level is too low.
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Anita
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
The problem with screen mounts is that irrespective of where they are placed, they obscure areas within the field of view . . .

Yes, anything you can see obscures areas within the field of view, but when that view is of the parked windscreen wipers, as in my case, the view of the road is exactly the same as when the satnav and mount are removed.


I found a vent mount far more dangerous than my screen mount because I had to look further away from the road to check a turn, and had my eyes off of the road for a longer period of time.

Quote:
If it is possible it can place the SatNav out of reach making operation difficult or dangerous.

How can it be dangerous when you should only operate the device while stationary?
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spook51
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What they should only do is not the same as what SatNav users actually do e.g. place their screen mounts in silly places, operate them when they're driving.

Obviously not all car dashboards are the same and vent positions vary but looking at a vent mounted device ought not to be more dangerous than glancing at the instruments or radio. Naturally there will be exceptions.
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Anita
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
What they should only do is not the same as what SatNav users actually do e.g. place their screen mounts in silly places, operate them when they're driving.

That's a sweeping statement. It may be what some users do, but for those who don't operate their satnav while driving there's nothing wrong with it being mounted in a sensible position on the windscreen, even if it is more difficult to reach.

Quote:
. . . looking at a vent mounted device ought not to be more dangerous than glancing at the instruments or radio.

But surely it's better if it's in a position that makes it less dangerous, especially if you use the satnav display to check your speed, thus avoiding taking your eyes off the road to look down at the speedo. And personally I don't need to look at the radio while driving, just listen to it!
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robertn
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Provided the device is out of line of site (i.e. not blocking the drivers view of the road) - a good guide being the windscreen wiper arcs, It should not matter where it is placed.
I would go as far as propose that no matter where it is placed and idiot will still look at at the wrong time and a prudent drive at the right time. Therefore the problem is not where the satnav is, but when it is being looked at. Another suggestion from me is that those the place it in line of site are most likely to be in the former group, and getting them to move the device is not going to fix the problem.

If I am right, is it then reasonable to propose the it is better to let people put the Satnav whereever they want? That way other road users will be able to spot some of the the idiots by the placement of teh Satnav, making easier and avoid them. Very Happy
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aj2052
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should we be blaming the manufactures for creating this problem, when i bought my mio168 it came with a fairly long swan neck which fitted nicely resting on the dash near to the driver and out of the line of site, nowadays they seem to be short stems and with some windscreens about a mile away from the driver gives no option to be out of line of site, personally now using a vent mount on my focus for the asus couldnt wish for better especially as using brodit mount could set the height to not protude above the dash top, as for rear view mirrors these are above the line of sight and along with the satnav for me usually only have a quick glance, yesterday had a bird poo down drivers side window and certainly did distract me when looking right when pulling out of car park so to me line of site should be reserved for driver attention.
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aj2052
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must admit Dennisn setup would drive me crazy particulaly the phone, perhaps a poll is needed.
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spook51
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anita wrote:
spook51 wrote:
What they should only do is not the same as what SatNav users actually do e.g. place their screen mounts in silly places, operate them when they're driving.

That's a sweeping statement. It may be what some users do, but for those who don't operate their satnav while driving there's nothing wrong with it being mounted in a sensible position on the windscreen, even if it is more difficult to reach.

You're quite right, I missed out 'some'. A poll asking the question: Have you ever operated your SatNav whilst driving? might be worthwhile.

Anita wrote:


Quote:
. . . looking at a vent mounted device ought not to be more dangerous than glancing at the instruments or radio.

But surely it's better if it's in a position that makes it less dangerous, especially if you use the satnav display to check your speed, thus avoiding taking your eyes off the road to look down at the speedo. And personally I don't need to look at the radio while driving, just listen to it!


Less dangerous in terms of what, the time it takes to look?

I wouldn't think the difference in the time it takes to look at your speedo directly in front of you and looking at your satnav slightly off to one side to is significant, it's probably scarcely measurable. I'd also suggest it's quicker to note the position of a needle on a dial than it is to focus on and read the mph reading on your satnav.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
A poll asking the question: Have you ever operated your SatNav whilst driving? might be worthwhile.
What would that achieve? I suspect that all all respondents other than those who are economical with the truth will answer YES. And then what?
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aj2052 wrote:
Must admit Dennisn setup would drive me crazy particularly the phone, perhaps a poll is needed.
I can't think why - especially the phone, which as I said is now on a gooseneck mount blocking my line of sight to the door pillar, not even anywhere through glass. AND it's set to auto answer without even touching - I do nothing but wait for it to stop ringing, then I answer "Dennis?". I have it on a mount because it's so much easier to to be handsfree - e.g. when I go to London, I usually stop in Heston Services to buy a congestion charge, which requires use of touchtone, get out my credit card and write down the receipt details - without handsfree, that's harder than changing gear. I went handsfree over 10 years ago after the first time I tried using the phone whilst driving.
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AliOnHols
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Anita, My SatNav is in my line of sight - It obscures my windscreen washer jets and part of my bonnet. None of the road is obscured and, positioned where it is, it takes less time to take my eyes off the road and back again. No different than looking at the speedo and fuel guage, which surely is still permissible?

Like all things, lest we truely enter a Nanny State, allow common sense to prevail. SatNavs should be positioned anywhere we want so long as it does not compromise safety. There shall always be idiots who do the wrong thing despite the laws and there shall always be do-gooders trying to run our lives for us because they know better.

EDIT - If you are going to carry out a poll perhaps the questions should read -
Q1 - In the name of safety, could you find a better position for your SatNav.
Q2 - If YES, why haven't you already?
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spook51
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, common sense doesn't always prevail. Sometimes people need to be protected from the consequences of their own stupidity and that of others.

If the 'Nanny State' (if that's what you want to call road safety legislation) bans screen mounts, I won't object. Neither will I lose any sleep at being considered a do-gooder.
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