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Joined: 14/08/2003 22:56:10 Posts: 16 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject:
pcaouolte wrote:
dandpclements wrote:
I've just installed OVI maps on a 5800. If I'm not connected to the internet I keep getting "route not found" when I try and drive somewhere more than about a mile. Walking routes seem ok as does drive routes if I'm connected to the internet.
Any ideas on why this is?
Have you used Map Loader on your PC to install the map of your country onto your phone? If not see here.
This will allow you to load one or more country maps onto your phone and drive anywhere within the area covered by that map without an internet connection.
Paul
Yes all the maps are on the phone - walking navigation is fine I just cant drive more than a mile without needing to be on-line
And the rule about not using your "phone" when driving is avoided because of what exactly??
Paraphrasing for the sake of brevity, the law says that you cannot use a handheld communication device to make or receive a call or send a written [text] message if doing so requires the hand-held device is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function. Basically it's not the phone itself that's illegal - it's the act of trying to make a call by physically holding a phone. It's therefore illegal to make a call using a hands free kit, where you need to dial the number physically on the phone (ie where you don't have voice-activated dialling).
Using your phone for any purpose other than communication (including as a sat-nav) is therefore not illegal but of course - you're liable to fall under one of the "catch-alls" such as "driving without due care and attention" or the greater offence of "dangerous driving".
Joined: Jan 10, 2006 Posts: 585 Location: Guildford (Regrettibly)
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject:
I've got them installed on a Nokia 5800 with firmware 40.0.005 & to be quite honest they're useless.
Free yes, but they need to be.
I tried them out in Guildford & they tell me that Walnut Tree Close which runs from the gyratory system past the station through to the old A3 Woodbridge Road only comes in from the A3 Woodbridge Road end for about 0.5 of a mile! Duh!
Joined: Aug 15, 2005 Posts: 156 Location: Windsor, UK
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:00 pm Post subject:
Lovely idea, Nokia, but tried installing on my N95 8Gb and it aborts with a Invalid Certificate error, or something of that ilk. Frankly I can't be bothered to sort it.
Now, where's that Nokia 6110 Navigator? Or better still, the iPaq 2200 with TomTom 5? At least they worked out of the box........
a disillusioned astro _________________ Garmin 2360LT
iPaq 2210 TTN5.2
I like to switch views. Or maybe change my mind and need to alter a destination. Or even check the travel icon(s) or message.
I fail to see how I could do all that just by voice instruction or by touching the phone's tiny screen.
pcaouolte wrote:
pourquoipas wrote:
Simon1 wrote:
The fact that you're phone/satnav is attached to the screen and you are using it hands-free.
I doubt that is possible. How does it work then?
Before starting your journey you enter your destination into the satnav software on the phone. There is no need to touch the phone at any point during the journey.
So we think that holding a phone whilst driving, or touching the screen whilst on a cradle, so as to use the sat nav function is very different to the ban on using it to speak or send a text message.
We might have a difficult time proving we were not about to dial a number or send a text.
The "polis" (as they say in Scotland) would simply argue that we were holding the device and using the phone (i.e. function is irrelevant). The magistrate/sheriff will simply agree and therefore the ban on using mobiles will be sufficient to rack up DVLA points and tax revenue. The police will not need to rely on the less certain careless driving.
Care to prove me wrong NickG?
NickG wrote:
gem wrote:
And the rule about not using your "phone" when driving is avoided because of what exactly??
Paraphrasing for the sake of brevity, the law says that you cannot use a handheld communication device to make or receive a call or send a written [text] message .......
Using your phone for any purpose other than communication (including as a sat-nav) is therefore not illegal but of course - you're liable to fall under one of the "catch-alls" such as "driving without due care and attention".
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:31 am Post subject:
As I understand it, the law in question applies specifically to mobile phones, making their hands-on use illegal. It says nothing (yet) about any other devices, so they are presumably still in the position that phones were before the law was first changed.
Assuming I understand this correctly, it doesn't really matter what the magistrate thinks - the legal advisor would surely have to advise him/her whether this law applied to the device/usage in question, or not.
So it would still come down to the more general careless/dangerous/etc driving issues.
As possible examples see these two Q&As from the Sussex police
Quote:
Is a driver allowed to use any other equipment, such as a hands-free mobile phone? Why don't you just make it illegal to use all mobiles when driving?
The use of a hands-free phone or other equipment is not specifically prohibited because it is difficult for police to see it in use. However if you drive poorly, because you are distracted by a phone conversation for example, the police can prosecute for failing to have proper control of the vehicle. The same penalty applies – three points and a £60 fine.
If there is an incident or a crash, the use of any phone could be justification for the charges of careless or dangerous driving. The penalties on conviction for such offences include heavy fines, endorsement, disqualification and - in serious cases - imprisonment.
and, to indicate again that other devices can be used
Quote:
When is a driver allowed to use a hand-held phone?
There is an exception for calls to 999 or 112 in a genuine emergency where it would be unsafe or impractical to stop.
Using two-way radio equipment when driving is not a specific offence. However, you need to remember that a conversation could still distract from the concentration needed to drive safely. If you do not have proper control the police can still take action.
I am of course assuming that this law, and not a different one, is applicable in Scotland! _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:27 am Post subject:
pourquoipas seems quite right. I knew I shouldn't have started getting involved in this debate
It took me a while to track down the relevant (I think ) reference in the Road Traffic Act, which is what the penalties refer to
Quote:
41DBreach of requirements as to control of vehicle, mobile telephones etc
A person who contravenes or fails to comply with a construction and use requirement—
(a) ...
or
(b)as to not driving or supervising the driving of a motor vehicle while using a hand-held mobile telephone or other hand-held interactive communication device, or not causing or permitting the driving of a motor vehicle by another person using such a telephone or other device,
is guilty of an offence.
So a mobile phone with GPS (eg iPhone) would be covered if it is being 'hand-held'. Presumably if it (or a satnav) is in a cradle when it is being 'fingered' that's "all right", subject to proper control of vehicle etc ? But no doubt there ARE quirks for the professionals in the business to get their teeth into .
Any lawyers amongst us who can advise? _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
stefanoza, I don't know where you get your information from but downloading the maps is only not free in regards to data charges, if you don't simply hook the phone up to a computer and download them over your Internet connection. Unless your phone is your only Internet connection there's no reason for map updates not to be free.
The mapping application on my E71 has no option to download maps as such. You zoom in on an area and if its blank you select 'Go online' and the roads appear. Going abroad you have to go online with an Internet connection and then zoom in on the areas you are visiting to get the maps.
You have to change the online connection mode to get the latest traffic information.
Joined: Apr 16, 2006 Posts: 320 Location: BS20, North Somerset
Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject:
nickhoare wrote:
The mapping application on my E71 has no option to download maps as such.
Are you using the Nokia Map Loader desktop app. This will download the maps to your desktop and then install on your phone. No need to use your phone connection to download the map data
Think of it like a playground. What is happening now is that back on 2002 the 2 year old's (Navman, garmin, Tomtom etc) found a cool sandpit to playin. Now the 8yo (multinationals) have relised how fun (Profitable) it is, and are fighting for control over the cool sandpit.
They first need to get ride of the snotty nosed 2yo's, because they play diffently and take away all the fun, and anyway, it's just fun to beat them up. After this is over they will fight among themselves for a while. In the end, one will control who plays in the sandpit and become the coolest (richest) kid on the block.
What that means for us - in the end we will have a bully controlling access to the sandpit.
I am staggered at the amount of misinformation and petty minded bigotry towards alternative forms of GPS based navigation that aren't TomTom/Garmin/etc.!!
I read through this entire thread at least 3 or 4 times, picking out "nuggets" of quotes and found so many things that were inaccurate or just plain silly, this post would have taken up at least 2 pages!
So let me address a few things.
Firstly, I've been using navigation for a number of years now and yes, it has been predominantly on mobile phones. My main tool of choice was, until development stopped for Symbian Smartphones, TomTom Mobile Navigator. This was an excellent application and nothing really came close, not even Nokia's own efforts.
But, when TomTom decided to jump into bed with Apple and cease development on any other platform, TTN6 rapidly became out of date and an alternative was required. By this time Nokia's offering, then known as Nokia Maps was up to version 2 and quite a reasonable app. The maps themselves were free and all I needed to do was buy a navigation licence at approx £52 a year. Many people didn't like this business model but once you worked out how much a standalone device would set you back, and factored in how much map updates would cost, there wasn't an awful lot in it at all.
As Nokia's devices got better, faster and more capable (I had started using TTN5 on my 6600), the overall experience got better, and when the N95 came out with built in GPS, it just fortified the concept of an all in one device. By this time, I was using my N95 as a communications device, Sat Nav, MP3 Player, PIM, Camera and many other functions besides. The phone hooked up to my Bluetooth Head Unit wirelessly, streaming all audio (phone calls, music, navigation commands, etc) in full hifi quality and allowing me to make handsfree calls with voice activated features such as dialling and other commands.
It's an experience that continues to this day with my N97. A complete handsfree, voice activated system and now that Ovi Maps is at version 3.03, with free navigation (and that includes postcode searches, lane assistance, speed camera warnings, "Over Speed Limit" warnings, traffic data, Michelin & Lonely Planet Guides, and much more) and free map data from arguably the best mapping company, it has become one of the best in (and out of) car options available.
Let me address some of the concerns and misinformation in this thread specifically (without naming names):
Quote:
I hope not because I for one (and I am sure many others will agree), much prefer to use the existing dash mounted devices that now come with large well lit screens, voice activation and a host of other features that I guess might be more physically difficult for a solo driver to access on the move via a mobile phone.
The screens on devices like the N97, X6, 5800, etc are indeed smaller than a TomTom but not that small to use quite normally. Nothing is difficult to access, most functions are icon driven and very intuitive.
Quote:
The maps may be free but you have use the service to download them - this is not free! and I'm guessing that maps will be frequently updated in the background to give the phone folk a nice little stream of income.....it doesn't help that there is no manual....
Maps are free. To download them, you use the Maps Loader app on your PC or Mac. The only "cost" is the one you already pay for your internet connection at home. You could download them over the air (OTA) on your device, but you'd be silly to do so on any journey of reasonable length.
Quote:
if you get a phonecall the map goes off! Thereby rendering the device useless until the call is over - a nightmare in London for example.
Not on a Nokia. iPhone's are incapable of multi-tasking, hence them cutting out. On a Nokia, the phone handles everything for you. It displays the caller's ID and once answered, the device reinstates the Maps app to the foreground whilst managing the call for you. Even better is when you are playing music from the phone too! The phone pauses the music, handles the call, puts Maps back on the screen during the call, then when the call has finished, un-pauses the music, fades it back in and all is well in the world
Quote:
The maps are indeed free but then you pay a license etc for each piece of the sat nav map that you want to use.
No. That was the OLD model. The new version (3.03) is TOTALLY free. FOREVER.
Quote:
I tried them out in Guildford & they tell me that Walnut Tree Close which runs from the gyratory system past the station through to the old A3 Woodbridge Road only comes in from the A3 Woodbridge Road end for about 0.5 of a mile! Duh!
Show me a navigation device that doesn't get it wrong sometimes!
Quote:
Lovely idea, Nokia, but tried installing on my N95 8Gb and it aborts with a Invalid Certificate error, or something of that ilk. Frankly I can't be bothered to sort it.
I like to switch views. Or maybe change my mind and need to alter a destination. Or even check the travel icon(s) or message.
I fail to see how I could do all that just by voice instruction or by touching the phone's tiny screen.
All simply done via the icon driven dashboard.
Quote:
I am not yet convinced that the trend toward the use of mobile phones to navigate is a good thing although I accept there is an argument that says certain (dare I say it trendy) elements of the driving public that would prefer it this way. For myself I will stick to my dash mounted sat nav and use my phone to make and receive phone calls.
Thing is, phones, or more specifically, smartphones, are not phones anymore. They are handheld computers. The phone aspect is just one of MANY features, and today's crop of smartphones are equally capable of being navigation devices, MP3 players, cameras, etc as much as single function devices.
Nokia's new navigation business model is based around location based services that use Ovi Maps as a platform, rather than a single app. Ovi Maps 3.03 already features Michelin & Lonely Planet guides as well as interactivity with social networking platforms such as Facebook. And don't forget that Ovi Maps can be accessed via your web browser on your desktop where you can plan routes in great detail and then synchronise these to your device.
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Rainhill, Lancashire Not Merseyside!
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:19 pm Post subject:
Roberto, a very reasoned and thought out response, however, it does appear that the solution is only supported on Nokia phones. Not suprising, you say, but why cannot I get this application to load on my Samsung i8910 Omnia HD?
It is a Symbian S60 v5 device and acknowledges the fact that it's Operating System belongs to Nokia. Symbian was bought by Nokia as part of their business model.
I would more fully accept your arguments if this were possible, particularly because the screen on the i8910 is closer to the size of a TT 520, which I use now, than any Nokia touch screen phone.
I have always had Nokia phones up to now, but the current Nokia navigation offerings were not available to me through Orange at the time my contact was up for renewal and i got the i8910 for nothing!
If you do know how I can add the Ovi maps functionality to a Samsung, I would be very happy to try it, bearing in mind that my phone is not hacked or 'jailbroken' in any way, and will remain so. _________________ Ric - TomTom 520 DEAD - Passed to the great traffic jam in the sky. Now using Maps & Waze on Samsung Galaxy S4 + CamerAlert of course!
If only it were that easy. Yes, the Samsung shares a common OS and UI system but I doubt very much if Ovi Maps will ever work on it, although never say never!
The reason I doubt it is down to the fact that Nokia have released Ovi Maps for free for a number of reasons, the main one being to give their handsets a USP (unique selling point) and therefore increase unit sales. Symbian was indeed founded by Nokia, along with Sony Ericsson and Samsung, with nokia taking full ownership in 2008 and only last week, Symbian became open source.
But unless someone comes up with a workaround or "hacked" version, I doubt you will see it on the i8910 anytime soon.
The best place to watch is http://www.allaboutsymbian.com where there are specific boards for the i8910 and all other S60 Symbian devices.
The best thing about Nokia's actions is that it will force other companies to rethink their approach and improve their respective offerings. It doesn't mean, contrary to what others say in this thread, that it's the end of "paid for" navigation devices or applications. It just keeps everyone on their toes
I think it might be worth adding here that a few months ago, I took part in a survey for a company who advise the automotive industry on design. They canvassed for people who use mobile phones for navigation and I was asked to participate.
The guy came to visit me and spent an hour or so with me, asking many detailed questions about my use of my N97 and Maps as well as filming me using it and discussing the pros and cons of such a set up.
Whilst he wasn't at liberty to divulge his client who had commissioned the survey, he told me that the automotive industry is taking the issue of smartphones as navigation devices VERY seriously and many manufacturers are looking to accommodate this ever increasing market in their interior designs.
He also commented that he was incredibly surprised at how good the N97 and Maps was compared to other navigation devices, both smartphone based and standalone.
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) reference in the Road Traffic Act, which is what the penalties refer to
.
