Problem TTN3 and HP2210

[Bluecan]

Dear Dave

If I am starting a new thread needlessly then I apologise. I have contributed three posts to you review comments on TTN3 about the malfunction of TTN3 with HP 2210 but it seems from what I have seen it warrants a thread of its own.

The fault is that after running for a matter of 30 - 40 seconds the BT receiver stops "talking" to the Ipaq.

As I have pointed out in the "Review of TTN3 Forum" I have contacted the Support Staff at TomTom by telephone who came up with the intial response of debonding and then rebonding the BT receiver.
When this did not work they said that this applied only to the TomTom Bluetooth GPS.

They could offer little in the way of suggestions regarding the Fortuna Clip on BT other than to contact Fortuna and ask for help.

This I did and they came back with the settings I already use with TTN2.

I have now tried to get an answer using the question facility on my TomTom.
To this question I received a standard reply which had more to do with how to get the upgrade from TomTom and install it on your machine. I updated the question. Again I received the standard reply previously mentioned. I have again upgraded the question and as yet have to receive a reply.

It may be of interest that I have tried the Fortuna BT with a friends Compaq 3970 running TTN3 without any problems.

In view of all this I have had to reinstall TTN2 and feel somewhat cheated that I have spent 59 euros on a product that will not work.


Could someone offer any suggestions as to what I can do next, and has anyone got TTN3 working with the HP2210/Fortuna Clip On combination.

Alan Paul

[Steveg]

Hi Alan

My system, which is just about the same as yours, works fine, but then I have TTN3 V3.0 and HAVE NOT as yet upgraded to 3.01 (if it ain't broke don't fix it principal)

I am however a little concerned about your mail - I presume you tried the updates on TT's site 3.01 and 3.02 which are specific to the 2210? - if you have then I am well worried and happy that I can stay with 3.0. this however is not good enough for you and others who have upgraded from TT2 as you do not have 3.0 to go back to

Darn it I was planning to do all the upgrades etc this weekend now that TT say the fix is available for the 2210

back to the drawing board

Steve

[DavidW]

There have been several threads on this problem already, including several new threads. However, I don't have the ability to make one thread sticky, and what I know of the Pocket GPS Team's status is that they're a pretty busy bunch, not least trying to look at server speed issues.


The summary seems to be this. TomTom promote Navigator 3.01 and GPS 3.02 as the solution to the problem. Several 2210 users find there are problems with this combination when using Bluetooth.

Navigator 3.00 and GPS 3.00 seems to work better for some than any later version does. The problem is that only early retail packs seem to contain Navigator 3.00 - certainly it appears that all the CDs supplied to those who upgraded Navigator 2 Great Britain to Navigator 3 Great Britain contain Navigator 3.01 and GPS 3.00, which seems to be a combination prone to Bluetooth problems on a 2210.

Navigator 3.00 is not available for download anywhere, and I'm not sure that TomTom would be prepared to make it available for download as Navigator 3.01 has an extensive list of bug fixes.


A further complication is that there's the 1.10 ROM for the 2210. Information elsewhere in the forums seems to indicate that HP have reissued the 1.10 ROM recently, and this reissue may have additional fixes.

I would personally expect any fixes in a re-release to be limited to the installer, otherwise HP should increment the version number of the ROM. For example, when the 1.10 ROM for the iPAQ 3950/3955 was found to have a bug to do with the processor speed selection on the iPAQ, the reissue was designated 1.11.


Obviously, the number of potential combinations is huge - Navigator 3.00 (if you have it) or 3.01 is one possibility. For GPS versions, ones to try seem to be 3.00 (as on the Navigator 3 upgrade disk), 3.02 (the latest from TomTom) and possibly 2.07 (the last version not to include TomTom's Bluetooth driver).

That alone is six combinations.


If you add in two or possibly three ROM versions (which, of course, are non-trivial to change between), then two ROMs makes it twelve combinations, and three ROMs eighteen combinations. There's arguably one more ROM option - the original ROM with the updated Bluetooth drivers. This means there may be as many as 24 plausible combinations that need testing - and that's without introducing other variables such as different Bluetooth GPSes.



It does seem that the problems are limited largely if not completely to the 2210. I believe there's some hardware differences between the 2210 and some other Bluetooth iPAQs, which is manifest in the way Bluetooth authentication is handled (this has ramifications to do with the use of more modern Nokia phones that have Nokia's anti-bluejacking 'solution' incorporated, though I forget what the precise issue is there save that it's to do with session keys and device keys).

However, this TomTom problem is likely to be a different issue - as connections are clearly being established and then are failing.


I think TomTom's "it's your GPS" is not that plausible - though it's clearly better for those using TomTom GPSes to spearhead any dialogue with TomTom if they're having problems. After all, the TomTom Bluetooth GPS hardware and firmware is under TomTom's control in a way that other GPS hardware and firmware isn't.

The posts on the forums seem unclear - are users of TomTom Bluetooth GPSes affected, and if so, which GPS hardware version or versions (the earlier one with the cradle or the newer one that lacks the cradle?). Many of the recent posts have been about the Fortuna Clip On - though that could just be because it's a very popular choice.


Frustrating as it is, if you need your system to work now, it may be a case of having to revert to Navigator 2 until a solution is found.


Unfortunately this affects a very popular combination, and there's several possible locations for the fault. It may be to do with:

• something low level on the iPAQ's hardware, especially in the Bluetooth hardware (HP or HTC, who I believe design and manufacture a lot of the iPAQ hardware, possibly Intel and ARM)
  
• problems with the iPAQ hardware drivers or Windows CE OEM abstraction layer (HP and possibly HTC if they designed the 2210 hardware)
  
• the iPAQ's Bluetooth stack (Widcomm and HP)
  
• a bug in Windows CE 4.2 or the Pocket PC 2003 code that sits above it (Microsoft)
  
• a problem in the way your GPS implements the serial port profile (GPS manufacturer - or in the case of TomTom's GPS either TomTom or Leadtek, who I believe designed the TomTom Bluetooth GPS)
  
• something to do with memory card access placing excessive load on the iPAQ's processor (arguably any of the memory card manufacturer, HP, HTC if they designed the 2210, possibly also Microsoft, Intel and ARM)
  
• an outright bug somewhere in TomTom's code (TomTom)
  
• probably several more things I haven't thought of

This is potentially a very tricky problem to identify clearly, let alone fix. Unfortunately a lot has changed between Navigator 2 and Navigator 3. It might well be that using the exact same GPS code in Navigator 3 and pairing it with GPS 2.07 (which some report works fine with Navigator 2 on a 2210, but is troublesome with Navigator 3) isn't enough to make the problem go away - the problem may not be in the GPS code itself.

Elsewhere in the forums it seems that Navigator 3 may be even harder on memory cards than Navigator 2 was - amongst other things, the map files are slightly larger if you have the entire Great_Britain map installed. Speaking as a former software engineer (it was my profession until I became too ill to work), this is a nightmare bug, really, especially if it's not immediately obvious when debugging starts where the problem lies and what factors are significant.

I have had customers yelling at me and my colleagues down the phone about bugs that were actually in operating system code - it was just that our code provoked them because our product was subtly different to other company's products that hooked onto the same parts of the OS. We had to work with the OS manufacturer to help them fix the bugs and release the fix back to us.


I fear it may take some time to get this one nailed. Sadly it seems that TomTom's confident assertion that Navigator 3.01 and GPS 3.02 was the fix seems to be false for at least some 2210 owners.

What really doesn't help is TomTom support's attitude. That I can't explain, save to note that sometimes, even in the relatively small company I used to work for, it was sometimes impossible to keep customer support staff updated on the latest situation with even serious problems. Sometimes the explanations require a high level of technical competence and knowledge of product innards to make sense.

I was development staff in my last job. Sometimes our boss used to agree that tech support could put badly affected customers directly through to us and we'd attempt to explain what was happening to them. However, there were often severe limits in what we could say, not only due to lack of technical knowledge on the part of our customers (either generally or about matters unique to the internals of our product, which only development staff tend to be fully conversant with), but also in these situations non-disclosure agreements with other companies and matters of commercial confidentiality came into play.

If you were in the middle of a complicated debug, it was common practice to press the "Do Not Disturb" button on your phone and stick a notice to your office door saying that you needed to be left in peace. Maybe that's how the TomTom development team are right now.


All this said, it would certainly help if TomTom could say what their status is on this - even if it's just that they know there are problems with Navigator 3 3.01 and GPS 3.02 on an iPAQ 2210 using a Bluetooth GPS, and they're working on it.


For now, it would help if those affected could, when posting here in the forums, and in any communications with TomTom, give the following information:

1. iPAQ 2210 ROM version
   
2. if the original 2210 ROM is installed, whether or not the updated Bluetooth drivers are loaded
   
3. details on memory card type, size, brand and any markings on the back of the memory card
   
4. details on memory card format (if known)
   
5. details of which map is being used
   
6. details about GPS hardware - including version if there's multiple versions of the same GPS (if a Fortuna Clip On, try both ST and XT mode and report if that makes any difference)
   
7. TomTom GPS settings used (if you know how and are confident in doing so, try both NMEA and SiRF modes on SiRF based GPSes - though beware - some Bluetooth GPSes that are SiRF based don't work properly in SiRF mode, and if you get a mode switch wrong you can 'lose' the GPS to the point where you either have to let the batteries go flat, or even send it for service. Don't try changing mode, even in the TomTom GPS settings, unless you're confident you know what you're doing)
   
8. TomTom Navigator 3 and TomTom GPS versions
   
9. whether or not a single uninstall of TomTom GPS has been made (for GPS 2.08 and upwards) to remove the TomTom Bluetooth driver
   
10. if relevant, a statement that Navigator 2 worked properly, complete with versions of Navigator 2 and TomTom GPS used

It would also seem wise to uninstall and remove any add-on programs like CheckPOInt and GPSAssist.


I hope this helps - even though it does little more than restate the issue and give what little insight I can into why this may be a difficult problem to solve.



David

[alix776]

try this rub the tt wizzard and pair your ipaq and the receiver when the ipaq asks should it create a serial port select no this will use the gps as just a device you can acess i to do ths with my xda2 my 2210 runs just fine with tt3 im using gps 2.09 with no problems on the ipaq
_________________
currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .

Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl

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