Tom Tom Jukebox + streaming Bluetooth.....Do TT use stuff!!?

jimbo_hippo · Frequent Visitor Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 444

I've kept my head down round here recently because I began to feel like a moaning g*t about everything beyond basic navigation and Tom Tom but I'm back.....and I'm still annoyed.

I recently decided to enter the modern age and ditch all the CDs in my car. I often do long journeys, sometimes across Europe where I do 50/50 local radio (I'm so cultured :-) ) and podcasts with a heavy dose of 80's Big Hair rock to keep me sane. Hopping into hire cars and commuting between a home office in North Yorks and my main offce in London I'm a prime candidate for stuffing a few podasts on my audio device and rattling off down the road.

I've long been a Parrot handsfree user and have recently upgraded from the MK3200 LS Colour to the MK6000 with bluetooth streaming. The idea was to be able to hear commands read out to me whilst I listened to Unchained by Van Halen at 100 dBs but still take business calls. Simply to have an integrated system where you had one source for all your nav/music needs outside of radio and drive with it all at your fingertips.

So I install the MK6000 and it doesn't see the Tom Tom. So downloaded bluetooth HiFi fix (3rd party hack), updated the Parrot to 1.03a firmware and all is well. Interesting that Tom Tom don't seem to care that the worlds leading manufacturers of In-Car Bluetooth Streaming products can't see a 720 but lets not get sidetracked. All paired up and ready for the road. Told family at the dinner table about my new approach to music and podcasts listening and how I should be commended for enbracing new technology. Wife gives me that look that says I'm beta testing for free again and I'm going to be grumbling around the dinner table in a weeks time.

So I'm all loaded up with Tesla, Van Halen, some podcasts, the good bits that Cinderella did, The Used (to make sure I'm not completely living in the past) and Made In Japan to be sure I AM living in the past. I'm ready to be a juvenile yet revert to Mr Professional when a call from a client comes in. Perfect.

Down to the technical boll*cks:

The Tom Tom jukebox is SOOOO slow!! Hit the 'next' button on the screen and it takes about 4 seconds to get to the next track.

The Tom Tom keeps deciding that it isn't conected and goes to the internal speaker until it finally re-connects and stays with it.

Whenever a navigation command is read out it waits for 4 seconds to revert back to the radio (faster if you're playing on the jukebox)

AV Remote Control target doesn't work so the controls for next/previous on the Parrot don't work.

When a call comes in the Parrot issues a command to pause the music but the Tom Tom doesn't understand this and plays 'Panama' at full tilt out of the inbuilt speaker while I'm on a call. On call disconnection it takes an age to reconnect.

En route, where I know where I'm going but want speed camera/traffic warnings I disable the voice but it still mutes the the music and says nothing even though I've disabled the voice in the setings. Strangely it does this about 4 times before deciding to behave properly.

I still don't have the ability to adjust navigation commands volume independant of music levels so when a navigation command is issued it's Tom Tom blowing my head off and not Tyketto which goes against my Rock n Roll beliefs. (this was done as a 'fix'.....which equals 'bodge' about 4 software versions ago and hasn't been revisited despite numerous people complaining about it on here for 18 months)

If I make a long telephone call then resume the Jukebox playback it's like Led Zeppelin are delivering Dazed and Confused in soundbites as it coughs it's way back to something like stable playback.

Here's a weird one - if I go throught a tunnel and lose the GPS (proved 3 times in the Tyne Tunnel) and hit next track it won't give me the next track until I get a GPS signal again. What the f*ck is that all about?

On top of this, if I do anything that might tax the Tom Tom regarding music playback it has an epeleptic fit and only a reset (on the motorway!) cures it.

So there will be those of you saying 'well, it might be the Parrot'. Erm....well.... no. I drove back down the country tonight on a route I know well so I enabled streaming on my Blackberry Bold where I have a few albums stored. It was heaven! Next/previous buttons working fast and reliably for several hours. Make a call and the music pauses. all functionaity as promised in the Parrot/Blackberry documentation. Just no navigation commands from the Parrot. If I try and reconnect the Tom Tom it plays the music from the Blackberry at 4 times normal speed and wont stop until I turn the Tom Tom off. Once the Tom Tom isn't involved an air of calm and normality re-establishes itself and I enjoy the music.

So what's the point of my rambling post? Well this forum is full of people asking simple one line stuff like 'can I do this that and the other' ..... replies 'no' or 'yes if you do this' etc etc.....all matter of fact chat. I just wanted to try and convey why the 720 isn't ENHANCING my life. It seems to irritate me and make me have to surf the web and post here on PGPSW and fiddle about and double check the manual etc etc. The parrot with the Blackbery made me smile. I was listenng to music effortlessly with an empty glovebox. I could have a friend in the car and say 'hey, look at this!' and not be embarrased. That's what I want stuff to do.

I still believe that my 720 is a great navigation device. IQ routes seems clever, I like ALG (not everyone does) I find that for navigating me from one point to another it is a great bit of kit. But GPRS traffic, Bluetooth streaming, in fact everything OUTSIDE of navigating me is so badly implemented I'm beginning to hate the thing after a year of use. I've had Tom Tom devices/software for many years but I'm starting to snear when look at the thing. It doesn't make me love it the way my Blackberry or my Sky+ box does. It doesn't surprise me, it slowly makes me hate it. Tom Tom are you listening? Make me love it again. Make me eager for the next release. Make your development team more than one man in a shed. Make the stuff it says on the box be just so.

Does anyone at Tom Tom actually use this sh+t? I mean, isn't there a guy in development commuting to work with a Parrot or similar ready to destroy his 720 with a lump hammer on the way to work? Who the hell tested it and said 'Hey! It's ready for release, put a sticker on the box saying 'streams bluetooth!...etc'? If this was bleeding edge and I had to live with some problems then maybe it's ok but my son can connect his cheap mobile to my Parrot and play his tunes and I can take calls etc. Why can't my Tom Tom do that if it says it can on the box? This is 2006 technology done badly.

Dear Tom Tom, why don't you make things WORK? And why don't you fix things that dont work QUICKLY so that we love you? Why aren't you making us sad geeks who thrive on gadgets proud that we have the latest and the greatest? You're making us look like sad tolerant geeks instead of being at the beginning of the future.

I work with computer technology and I KNOW there are always some issues. But this should have been sorted about 12 months ago....overnight....like you CARE.

PS: please feel free to read this out at your annual conference.
_________________
Tom Tom GO 720
Orange M3100, Orange SPV M5000
TomTom Navigator 6, Destinator 6
Holux GPSslim

mikealder · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:56 am Post subject:

Sounds like you are having quite a bit of "fun" with this set up.

Firstly the TomTom doesn't support AVRCP so whatever track next/ previous controlls you have on the Parrot will not function with the TomTom, I am not saying whether this is right or wrong, but if its not fitted don't expect it to work.
The 4 second delay between the Parrot switching back to the radio again is a sign of the Parrot not switching the audio source fast enough.
If when you answer a call the audio from the TomTom should be stopped by the Parrot, it shouldn't be dependent upon a device reacting to a signal from the device.

You should have got the iO-Play handsfree kit for around £60 as it works considerably better than what you describe above.

Tesla, Van Halen,The Used, Made In Japan - Nice choice in music though - Mike

jimbo_hippo · Frequent Visitor Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 444

Mike
Yeah, I understand about AVRCP profile. In refering the the AV Remote Control Target on my Blackberry i'm acknowledging that very thing. Prrot can perform all AVCRP functions fine with other devices.

As for the IO-play carkit, I think it removes the issues I'm having because rather than doing AVCRP communication with the device it just mutes the sound during a call which with the current shambles that is Jukebox would be better than what I'm currently experiencing. But trying to relocate the point you were listening to in a podcast after a 20minute call isn't easy and because you have to do multiple screen clicks to get there and search I think it's dangerous too because you're focussed on the screen.

I'd be interested to know more from any IO-Play users since online specs suggest it has AVCRP. If the problems with this are due to the lack of AVCRP in the Tom Tom don't you still get the Tom Tom playing the audio or does it pause it but not release the device from the connection as with the Parrot?

Although your advice is sound and I thank you for the input I still believe it's sloppy programming because, as mentioned, every other device with AVCRP in it can be controlled beautifully by the Parrot.

And on a lighter note, if 80s rock is your thing then Sunday night at this year's download Festival is a rare treat. Looks like the Monsters of Rock lineups from the late 80s/early 90s!
_________________
Tom Tom GO 720
Orange M3100, Orange SPV M5000
TomTom Navigator 6, Destinator 6
Holux GPSslim

Andy_P · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:56 am Post subject:

jimbo_hippo · Frequent Visitor Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 444

That's a good question Andy and one I hadn't considered. My knowledge of Bluetooth is such that I don't know if this is hardware dependant.

Would be useful for those thinking of buying in car technology to know if it will ever appear.
_________________
Tom Tom GO 720
Orange M3100, Orange SPV M5000
TomTom Navigator 6, Destinator 6
Holux GPSslim

mikealder · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject:

The iO-Play does have AVRCP as it can control the iPhone for next/ previous track etc, this doesn't work when the TT is connected though as the TT doesn't have the AVRCP profile available to use.

I would have thought it should be possible to add the extra capability to the TT via a software update, quite a few users of HTC mobile phones have added the missing DUN Bluetooth profile to their phones to enable a data connection with the TT, if you can add this capability to a phone I would expect the same with the TT. Lets face they added SDHC support to the TT not that long ago in way of a simple software update.

As for what happens with music being played through the iO-Play when you use the phone on hands free it simply switched the audio from music to phone, it doesn't pause the TomTom so when the call is ended you might find you are listening to a different music track. This is no big deal for music, but if you were listening to an audio book then it would cause fun and games to say the least, have a look at This Thread for more information on the iO-Play I also have a Bluetooth audio module for the iPhone that works very well with the iO-Play, some additional information on this specific little gadget will be written up later - Mike

jimbo_hippo · Frequent Visitor Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 444

H Mike,
Thanks for the feedback. Bit calmer today as I spent the day in my wife's Beemer 525i Sport. The tiptronic gearbox kept my mind away from the pretty grim factory satnav but my old Parrot is doing fine in there albeit without streaming audio.

Interesting points on the IO-Play. The fact that it doesn't utilse the pause functionality during a call makes it the less painful of the two compared to the Parrot. If the TT worked as per my Blackberry I'd have a much better setup than with the IO-play, especially as you say, when listening to Podcasts etc.

So I'm going to stick with my original topic which is that TT should implement it properly. If they did then the Parrot would be the intelligent choice. As it currently stands the IO-Play would be the better one.

I'm still unsure whether the Bluetooth hardware is critical to streaming which was Andy's point. It would be nice for others to know that if they plan to keep their 720 or similar for 2 years and their car for 2 years they could make the right choice of carkit for that period.

Cheers all.

Jimbo
_________________
Tom Tom GO 720
Orange M3100, Orange SPV M5000
TomTom Navigator 6, Destinator 6
Holux GPSslim

AndyVaughan · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject:

I agree with you Jimbo, the extra features we have paid for just do not work as advrtised.

TT fixed the BT stack so that it will now see most A2DP devices out of the box - when I was testing this with Navcore 7 the only devices that the TT would pair with for A2DP were the LG that Mike has and the JVC range. Sony, Pioneer, Blaupunkt, Parrot would not work.

The lack of AVRCP is annoying, both my head unit (JVC) and the iO Play (I have finally given up on the TT as a hands free device - the iO is so superior!) support it and both work with my Nokia phone, but no go on the TT. Mike is adamant it isn't implemented but I am sure that I have seen somewhere that it is ............. but just doesn't work Laughing

One thing I haven't tried is the iO Play with any other devices that support AVRCP other than my phone, to test if the iO Play issues a pause as well as switching sources - perhaps Mike can give this a try?

Maybe we should all log support calls regarding the lack of AVRCP support.

Oh, and the voice stuttering has magically reappeared and I haven't changed a thing since the release of 8.302 other than the PGSPW speed cams. Time to run clear flash I think!

Andy

jimbo_hippo · Frequent Visitor Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 444

Agreed Andy

The sad thing is that reading back my original post I sound like one of those people who want to bash the big boys and look important. As said in the post, I'd love Tom Tom to make me proud of them again and recommend their products knowing that I'm helping someone out. Those days are gone now. Would be nice to have them back.

Today i did a setup at a trade show in Leeds with some of our servers and I had an issue with a Beta release of a screen capture utility we wrote. I phoned my guys in tech anfd they said, yep, what you've reported is correct and in an hour I had a patch will will soon be in the next full release. I'm not going to bang on about what I do but this isn't Mickey Mouse stuff. The software is complex. I'd say much more complex than something such as AVRCP which is a documented standard. They're simply implementing known protocols. MY bunch have (thank god) big clients and they love us (I hope) because we react like this. Our team is small and focussed but I reckon they could sort these kind of issues in a day. A bold statement but I bet there are people on here who, if they could get to the source code, could sort the issue quickly. That's the irritating thing. This isn't difficult it's just a bit arrogant and lazy unless I'm missing something technical (I'm marketing and sales so I'm not one of the eggheads) and if it's not possible it would be nice to see someone from TT pop up and politely explain why it's not possible but that never happens. I suspect there may need to be a certain part to the BT chip to suport it but I'm no expert.

Ah well. Back to my show programming with Waysted on my headphones (Save Your Prayers...their best album by far :-) )
_________________
Tom Tom GO 720
Orange M3100, Orange SPV M5000
TomTom Navigator 6, Destinator 6
Holux GPSslim

AndyVaughan · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject:

If the features worked as advertised we would all get bored!!

It is a shame that for a year or so TT have developed even more bells and whistles instead of fixing the existing well documented issues.

It probably is fixable in a day if someone put their mind to it!

Anyway - rant over Laughing

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