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New firmware v1.323 released
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jonesbach
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philpugh wrote:
....What sort of routes are you planning that have 200+ waypoints?...
The number of waypoints required obviously depend on the length of the walk and the complexity of the route. At the moment I have two planned group walks that exceed this total, both around 24 mile. To illustrate that it is not just me, with my entry confirmation for the Bath Beat I received a GPX file with 242 waypoints. While I'm sure the number could be truncated you are left with shortcuts across the landscape that are more hindrance than help.
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LostMike
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Location: Monmouthshire

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonesbach asked
Quote:
did you have a chance to stop the Trip Log before the batteries gave out? If not, on restart it would have logged the initial "lock on drift" although you should still have had a snail trail.


I thought I did but to my surprise, when I powered up again it was still recording! However the snail trail showed no lock on drift and so I thought I was all right.
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Satmap A10. Platform 21
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Tony_P1
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lostmike. Not sure if this is relevant. When I go for a day's walk I stop for a pub lunch. Rather than turn the Active 10 off, I simply stop the trip log, and start it again when I restart the walk. The trip log calculations all seem OK, and the Active 10 snail trail is also halted during the break. However, when I convert track to trail, and transfer the 'my track' .gpx file to the PC, I find that it has continued to amass data during the pub break, with the GPS hunting around due to a poor signal, and giving a lot of ascent and descent. The 'hunting' is clearly visible in Memory Map. I was surprised, as I would have expected that stopping the trip log would also stop data collection to memory.
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jonesbach
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony_P1 wrote:
... When I go for a day's walk I stop for a pub lunch. Rather than turn the Active 10 off, I simply stop the trip log, and start it again when I restart the walk. The trip log calculations all seem OK, and the Active 10 snail trail is also halted during the break. However, when I convert track to trail, and transfer the 'my track' .gpx file to the PC, I find that it has continued to amass data during the pub break, with the GPS hunting around due to a poor signal, and giving a lot of ascent and descent. The 'hunting' is clearly visible in Memory Map. I was surprised, as I would have expected that stopping the trip log would also stop data collection to memory.


What software version are you using? I believe this problem was fixed with version 1.3. I have version 1.323 and have just carried out a test. On my version of the software pressing Stop does halt the snail trail and pressing Start re-engages it. The exported file(you have to move it to memory before you can export) records the route only while Start was selected, i.e. it will NOT amass data during the pub break.

I can only assume you have an early version of the software or your update has not taken correctly. It should not be necessary but I clear everything and reset defaults before carrying out the update.
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philpugh
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonesbach wrote:
Tony_P1 wrote:
... When I go for a day's walk I stop for a pub lunch. Rather than turn the Active 10 off, I simply stop the trip log, and start it again when I restart the walk. The trip log calculations all seem OK, and the Active 10 snail trail is also halted during the break. However, when I convert track to trail, and transfer the 'my track' .gpx file to the PC, I find that it has continued to amass data during the pub break, with the GPS hunting around due to a poor signal, and giving a lot of ascent and descent. The 'hunting' is clearly visible in Memory Map. I was surprised, as I would have expected that stopping the trip log would also stop data collection to memory.


What software version are you using? I believe this problem was fixed with version 1.3.


This may (or may not be relevant) but on my first major walk with my SatMap (it was running 1.3 then) I noticed I hadn't turn the logging on when I stopped at the top of the first hill. I set it going and left it on.

When I got back home I found that it had logged ALL the walk but it hadn't been displaying red dots or the profile info until I remembered to turn it on. I thought this was quite a neat feature. It would appear that as long as the device is on and has a signal it's logging away!
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jonesbach
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philpugh wrote:
...This may (or may not be relevant) but on my first major walk with my SatMap (it was running 1.3 then) I noticed I hadn't turn the logging on when I stopped at the top of the first hill. I set it going and left it on.

When I got back home I found that it had logged ALL the walk but it hadn't been displaying red dots or the profile info until I remembered to turn it on. I thought this was quite a neat feature. It would appear that as long as the device is on and has a signal it's logging away!

This is certainly not the case on my machine and its behaviour in this respect is impeccable. As there are two of you with the same problem I can only guess that something in your choice of settings is interfering with its correct operation. I would suggest that you try resetting everything to default and running tests as you change each setting.
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Tony_P1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philpugh, Jonesbach,
I'm using 1.323, and it was the same with 1.3. The only change I noticed going from 1.2 to 1.3 was the stopping of the red dots on the Active 10. Its odd that some of us have a different outcome to others. I'll have a closer look at my settings.
This came to my attention when I explored the 'total ascent/descent. I get a different figure in the triplog screen compared to that in the popup boxes on the map screen, and both seem much greater that reality. I therefore import the Active 10 .gpx file into memory map, and take the ascent/descent from there (which seems close to the truth). Have either of you noticed this issue, as I'm wondering if the data logging and ascent/descent are related.
Tony
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philpugh
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Joined: Dec 28, 2005
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Location: Antrobus, Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonesbach wrote:
philpugh wrote:
....What sort of routes are you planning that have 200+ waypoints?...
The number of waypoints required obviously depend on the length of the walk and the complexity of the route. At the moment I have two planned group walks that exceed this total, both around 24 mile. To illustrate that it is not just me, with my entry confirmation for the Bath Beat I received a GPX file with 242 waypoints. While I'm sure the number could be truncated you are left with shortcuts across the landscape that are more hindrance than help.


It's obviously down to personal preferences but 200 waypoints for a 24 mile walk is one every 500 feet (near enough). You must spend all the walk looking at the GPS instead of taking in the scenery and chatting to your friends (which is why we walk in the first place isn't it?). I really need a 'tongue-in-cheek' smiley here!

In the end it's the way you use the waypoints. Taken at face value they are just points that you are aiming to pass through on your walk. You aren't really trying to follow the straight-line 'route' between them in most land based activities (e.g. walking/cycling). The only time I would use them in that way is on water - where I would ensure the waypoints are set to avoid the hard lumpy bits in the water - or possibly on featurless terrain with no paths (e.g. Kinder Scout)

I use waypoints to mark points where there is a choice of paths and I need to pay a bit of attention! As paths marked on OS maps are not guaranteed to be accurate (or even there - as we found on our last walk!) setting waypoints to make a route closely follow the paths can be a pointless exercise. The lines between the waypoints are a feature of the route as determined by the GPS manufacturer. By following a route - even with a non-mapping device - you can get an indictaion of eh bearing and distance to your next target.
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Tony_P1
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just reset my machine to factory defaults, as suggested. I then 'reset all' in the triplog screen and left the device on for about 5 minutes before starting the triplog. I stopped the triplog after another few minutes. When I examined the track data .gpx file in GPSU it was clear it had started collecting data at the time I 'reset all' and had not waited until I started the triplog. Very puzzling!
Tony
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jonesbach
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony_P1 wrote:
....Have either of you noticed this issue, as I'm wondering if the data logging and ascent/descent are related.
....

No total ascent has been something of a joke from the start. I believe it is down to the accumulation of small errors in each reading. That's not to say this is a problem specific to Satmap, I've had similar comments from a Garmin user though whether the problems are related is another matter.

I have managed to duplicate your problem as it occurs at the start of a walk, but only at the start. It seems that the Satmap logs one point when you press reset but that is all. When you press start it then adds extra points to this point which explains philpughs experience. On my machine pressing stop after this stops the logging and start restarts it.
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johno99
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's obviously down to personal preferences but 200 waypoints for a 24 mile walk is one every 500 feet (near enough). You must spend all the walk looking at the GPS instead of taking in the scenery and chatting to your friends (which is why we walk in the first place isn't it?). I really need a 'tongue-in-cheek' smiley here! Philpugh
I'm not sure that people realise that when you press start and then go off for your walk, bike ride etc and then press stop at the end you dont actually input any waypoints at all. But when uploading onto the route planner-the route planner puts the waypoints in for you, in my case 500 odd for a 19 mile cycle ride! Not ny choice. The route planner cannot handle any more than 200 and locks up. If you could open it up on the route planner you would be able to edit the route and remove the bits where you were eating your bacon sandwich or backtracking, but ubfortunatly you cant!
John
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lucevans
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johno99 wrote:
It's obviously down to personal preferences but 200 waypoints for a 24 mile walk is one every 500 feet (near enough). You must spend all the walk looking at the GPS instead of taking in the scenery and chatting to your friends (which is why we walk in the first place isn't it?). I really need a 'tongue-in-cheek' smiley here! Philpugh
I'm not sure that people realise that when you press start and then go off for your walk, bike ride etc and then press stop at the end you dont actually input any waypoints at all. But when uploading onto the route planner-the route planner puts the waypoints in for you, in my case 500 odd for a 19 mile cycle ride! Not ny choice. The route planner cannot handle any more than 200 and locks up. If you could open it up on the route planner you would be able to edit the route and remove the bits where you were eating your bacon sandwich or backtracking, but ubfortunatly you cant!
John


Memory Map allows you to reduce the number of points in a track automatically whilst maintaining the same "shape" (zooming-in will show a certain amount of "squaring off" but it's not bad), then convert to it to a route. Possibly other flavours of mapping software have similar functionality?
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philpugh
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johno99 wrote:
It's obviously down to personal preferences but 200 waypoints for a 24 mile walk is one every 500 feet (near enough). You must spend all the walk looking at the GPS instead of taking in the scenery and chatting to your friends (which is why we walk in the first place isn't it?). I really need a 'tongue-in-cheek' smiley here! Philpugh
I'm not sure that people realise that when you press start and then go off for your walk, bike ride etc and then press stop at the end you dont actually input any waypoints at all. But when uploading onto the route planner-the route planner puts the waypoints in for you, in my case 500 odd for a 19 mile cycle ride! Not ny choice. The route planner cannot handle any more than 200 and locks up. If you could open it up on the route planner you would be able to edit the route and remove the bits where you were eating your bacon sandwich or backtracking, but ubfortunatly you cant!
John


Careful - you are mixing terminology here.

WAYPOINTS are discrete locations that you wish to pass through on your trip. You plan these before any trip.

ROUTE is an organised procession through a series of WAYPOINTS and is your paln of a trip.

TRACK/TRACKLOG is what your GPS/Logger creates as you do your trip. Logging should work whether or not you have a route or even waypoints set. It is the record of your trip which you can use later to check against your plan etc.

The point I was making regarding logging was that I was pleasantly suprised that it was logging even though I had forgotten to start it. It wasn't leaving track points or contributing to the elevation profile until I started it. This is not so much of a problem to me as I derive this sort of info back at home.

The ascent it logged was only 15 metres different from the elevation profile I generated at home (using the tracklogs from both the Active 10 and my GPS Logger) allowing for starting from the point I remembered to turn the Active 10 'logging' on. I assume that it is using the OS supplied elevation information to derive the ascent info as it was very close to that derived using this information at home.
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philpugh
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry - meant to add.

Many GPS manufacturers now supply s/w that takes the Tracklogs and allows you to reduce the number of points to make a Route. This is (I guess) to allow you to share your actual trip with other users - not a bad thing - but for me part of the fun is in the planning of the route which gives you a much better feel for the trip. Planning should always have contingency routes to allow for rapid return safety in case of adverse conditions - which won't be present in routes derived from actual walks.
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Tony_P1
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've spent the morning switching the triplog on and off for long periods. I agree with Philpugh that the Active 10 keeps logging away as long as it has a GPS fix, and regardless of whether the triplog is on or off.
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