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Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject:
Camera databases can be inaccurate accidentally; a driver is NEVER relieved in any way of his/her responsibility to (a) observe the traffic speed signs properly, and (b) drive through hazards with care and attention - eg, there are countless bends with unmarked speed restrictions where the general limit in force would be far too dangerous to maintain.
In any case, I suspect it's a BIG assumption that any errors introduced deliberately relate to the speed; there are other details which can be doctored which have no bearing on the speed limit. This form of doctoring has a long and proud history. When John Napier produced his logarithm tables in, I think, the 1600s, (a not-so-fond school memory of many of us old'uns) there were deliberate error entries introduced in there for exactly the same reason. I would hope that he made sure they were tucked away where they wouldn't cause sailors to founder if they happened to be using pirated copies. (And I bet it goes back much furter than then) _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject:
lif3mouldnn wrote:
Darren
Quote:
Oh? if you spent 14 hrs a day working on something and then found your work shared and robbed from under your feet would you be miffed?
I work in the education sector, so yes this is what happens to my work.
Miffed? Not me.
Well, Adrian, this lot is so tiresome, that, unusually for me, I wasn't going to comment on a subject which normally draws out my less popular approach.
But I simply HAVE to comment on this. You've lost the plot, clearly, and missed the point, which is that the "shared and robbed from under your feet" is precisely the problem. You are trying to tell us that your work is shared and robbed, thereby depriving you of valid recompense for your work. You're willing to do 14 hours a day for no pay. You don't need to earn your daily bread, it grows on trees in your back garden. My father and my sister worked in the education sector and got paid for it. I drove for nine hours today and I will get paid for it.
I don't believe you and I don't believe that you are under that sort of threat to your future. How can you approve of that? You disgust me.
I'll stop right there. I'm so angry I can't trust my fingers on this keyboard. _________________ Dennis
You then argue that the database aides road safety, but anyone else distributing it freely or otherwise is a scumbag. Are they not also aidding road safety?
So, by your flawed reasoning a hoodie stealing an old lady's purse would merely be contributing the the local economy?
Quote:
However if your telling me you spend 14 hrs a day on database management, on what I would call a smallish public data set, I think your doing something wrong.
You nor I know the the full criteria to create and distribute the full range of PGPSW datasets, so how can we possibly comment with any accuracy?
Quote:
And as previously stated the data in the database is clearly not yours, hence not yours to sell.
Do a little research and you will find the subscription relates to the members section of the site and not the database itself. The database is free within that section.
Quote:
You say the database is designed to make drivers drive safely, and actually its used to tell people were cameras are not and hence sppeding is encouraged in those areas. The truth is that is what the database is used for, I personally have no problem with that, but you obviously do.
The database has never been described as a means to break the law and many threads have actively discouraged such actions.
If you see fit to use the database to break the law, then that is your choice, however reckless it may be for others.
Quote:
If someone using your planted "incorrect data' takes a sharp bend doing 40 because they don't realise it should be 30, and have an accident they could sue you, and would clearly win.
You lost me here, why would you think the database has anything remotely to do with this? If you cannot figure when to turn the wheel or slow down, simply pay closer attention to the signs at the roadside.
Quote:
Run over a kid in this scenario and how can you defend your actions? Legally or morally?
Sigh, and using the database to drive at excess will somehow offer you immunity?
Quote:
I work in the education sector,
Please tell me you are not teaching your flawed values to kids in the UK. Your logic has more floors than my local department store.
However if your telling me you spend 14 hrs a day on database management, on what I would call a smallish public data set, I think your doing something wrong.
Interesting! I'm a database manager and have probably got more of an idea than most as to just how much time and effort goes in to all the facets of database systems.
I can fully understand 14 hour days - in fact I find many of my users seem to expect me to be available 24/7. So many of them seem to have the idea that we 'just' put the info on the computer with no understanding (or willingness to understand) all the 'stuff behind the scenes'. I try and explain it like an iceberg - you (the user) just see the tip whereas the bulk is hidden beneath the surface and it is the hidden part that supports what you see.
I can only applaud your efforts and say keep up the good work. I also hope you get a good feeling of satisfaction after doing a good days work.
Its an interesting argument the man has there, and I very rearely contribute to this sort of post.
However.............
In this case, let me state something.
If you use the "safety camera" database, and you have paid for it, as I did once, then I believe you have every right to think of it as being as correct as possible.
If however you get it pirate from somewhere, than you don't have that right at all.
Additionally, think of the following. You are driving along a road, and you have no idea of the speed limit. Your pirated version has a camera included, that states 50mph. So you do 50mph and get a ticket, as the real speed limit was 30mph.
You will have absolutely NO comeback on this website, or its camera database. If you tried that in court, you would be laughed out of the building. You were caught speeding, because of YOUR lack of attention to the speed limit, not because the camera said 50mph.
I think all people need to remember that the Sat Nav is an AID to driving, however, you still have to think for yourself, pay attention to your surroundings etc. I for one have never tried to turn onto a railway line, or into a river, just because the Sat Nav told me to. That is my choice, as I tend to realise the importance of certain skills when driving.
If I was caught speeding, and by the way, never have been, even before this database was thought about, then I would have no one to blame but myself, irrespective of whether the database said I could.
Anyone who speeds deserves to be caught. If therefore you are caught by a camera, you wrongly assumed wasn't there, then tough, you deserve it.
Sorry to go on, but I have enough of a legal knowledge to know that arguing about validity of camera database data in a court of law, will raise more concerns about your driving ability, then it would lawsuits against this site.
I trust from here, you will think about the driving process more, and not trust your sat nav or anything on it 100%. I seem to remember the disclaimers in the box, of my new 730T, perhaps you should have a read.
What would the position be if, say, I sold a Tomtom which had the pocketgpsworld speed cameras on it, and the new purchaser extracted the cameras and put them up for others on some web site?
I have noticed that practically every second hand Tomtom I have come across, has had the pocketgpsworld database on it. It seems to be standard practice for those selling Tomtoms to leave the database on them.
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:02 am Post subject:
The recommended action is to remove the database prior to you selling/ passing on any device with the Speed Camera database installed, otherwise it would be traceable to your account were the files subsequently found on any of the illegal share sites - Mike
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15138 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject:
misterfish wrote:
lif3mouldnn wrote:
Quote:
Oh? if you spent 14 hrs a day working ...
However if your telling me you spend 14 hrs a day on database management, on what I would call a smallish public data set, I think your doing something wrong.
Interesting! I'm a database manager and have probably got more of an idea than most as to just how much time and effort goes in to all the facets of database systems.
I can fully understand 14 hour days
thanks misterfish. anyone who has me on their msn list will know the hours that get put in for the database and general web site 'stuff'... to be told the database is so simple just shows how little is understood of the entire process.
the following is my own personal opinion and not that of PGPSW:
lif3mouldnn, i've worked in the education sector in both a grammar school and university - i wouldn't show off too much about your job, my experience of 'your type' is not good i'm afraid... as a breed of people you clearly need to understand that other staff exist and without them you would be nothing. slaving away all hours of the day for pathetic pay, to be looked down upon by teaching staff, expected to perform miracles due to useless planning by teaching staff... i could go on... they're called 'support staff' for a reason - without them you would, quite literally, fall down.
likewise, as misterfish states correctly, the data-set you see is the tip of the iceberg - how about the 50-100 submissions that need processing everyday? the accurate placings of each camera location? the recording of each sighting of a mobile camera? the slight updates to heading info? the changes of camera types or speed? the processing of cameras submitted that we already have in the database? the constant nagging and subsequent checking to see why someones submission hasn't been accepted? the physical process of releasing the 340 different variations of the database? (although as a non-subscriber perhaps you were simply not aware of the sheer number of variations available?). maybe now you can see a small glimpse of how much work is involved in maintaining such an accurate database?
perhaps not... well, you're more than welcome to start our own database if it's so simple. quite a number have tried and clearly realised how tough a job it actualy is.
Joined: Sep 06, 2006 Posts: 1618 Location: East Hertfordshire
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:37 am Post subject:
But bear in mind we don't know whereabouts in the 'education sector' lif3mouldnn works. It covers a vast range apart from teachers and lecturers, - such as school caretakers, administrators, external education consultants, inspectors, catering staff, examiners, support staff (er... no offence of course MaFt ).
So his experience may, or may not, support some of his views in this topic _________________ David
(Navigon 70 Live, Nuvi 360)
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:48 am Post subject:
What I can't understand is, if people don't like the site or the camera database, or lack of in their case, why come here? Probably stuck at home with no friends and nothing else to do. Sad really.
On a lighter note, or maybe I should say darker, don't forget to remind us to put our clocks back next weekend. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: pirate dtatbase
AlandEi wrote:
There will always be people who will subscribe then pass on/sell data, and the precautions already in place are probably the limits of what this site can do to protect this particular data, and according to what I have read in this thread, does seem to be working.
I recently posted a pirate link to POI's,... Low bridges ect... in my ignorance, as a novice sat nav owner, I did not realise this was data ripped from a legitimate site... I suffered the embarresment of the link deleted, and the reason for deletion added to the topic... so I PM'd management to apologise... will be more vigilant in the future, as I believe pirating, if left unchecked, will degrade the legitimate apps/ect available, eventually .
Quote:
Is there any way of adding an extra password, once the database is installed on the gps? this would make it harder for those that hack into ones PC's at work.
If you are worried about hackers at work, would it not be sensible to move the data onto removable media, after updating your device ?
Alan.
Hi
Yes this would have been the sensible thing to do from the start.
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history. When John Napier produced his logarithm tables in, I think, the 1600s, (a not-so-fond school memory of many of us old'uns) there were deliberate error entries introduced in there for exactly the same reason. I would hope that he made sure they were tucked away where they wouldn't cause sailors to founder if they happened to be using pirated 
copies. (And I bet it goes back much furter than then)
