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Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject:
The problem is that good old saying: "where's a policeman when you need one?"
We should be grateful that Tommo999 is brave enough to admit that he's "one of them" and continue to make informative contributions in the forum.
Unfortunately, the police are their own worst enemies because they have been reducing their profile on the beat and increasingly hiding behind speed cameras.
Tommo999 has, himself, said in posts that a greater number of police on the ground would be great.
According to Government spin, there are now more police officers than ever before...but where are they all because you never see them?!
I've just travelled from the south coast to the Lake District and back and only saw THREE police cars patrolling the motorway the whole time - and one of those was with a car on its side....in the good old days, there were police cars at regular intervals down the M6 etc.
The only other police were trying desperately to cause as much traffic chaos as possible at an event in the Lake District and one plod even had a camera in his hand taking photos of the Red Arrows whilst on duty. _________________ Andy
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Just to explain my comments...... my wink was because I was making a comment which I didn't really believe. I know the 'POLICE' do not have a sense of humour. Police Officers on the other hand, have a terrific sense of humour, as it is the only way to get through a day sometimes. If we didn't laugh and make jokes, we would become mental hospital inmates.
When I said our profession was the one that everyone loves to hate, I accept that 'HATE' may be a bit strong and 'EVERYONE' was too inclusive. I too was brought up to respect authority, but it seems that this trait is becoming less and less common. Police officers do what they have to do, because it is their job to do it. Police officers get assaulted, sworn at .....etc etc, when they are trying to do their job. Traffic officers (of which I am one) get a hard time from supposed law abiding motorists, when the motorist should be angry at themselves.
i just want to say that i admire your openness and honesty and go onto say i have read a lot of your comments on this site and found them to be on the whole fair and impartial, and before anyone gets at me, no i am not a copper and i have very little to do with them, but there are good ones as well as bad, but before you start to criticise the amount of police on the streets or the duties they perform question your reaction when your boss tells you to do something, which may not be in everyones best interest or the most popular thing to do, do you refuse to do it because it will make you unpopular or do you do your job and work towards improving your lot and hopefully your company by being pro-active. The trouble is we have slept walked into a dictatorship under Blair and now the unelected one, and they have excelled in blame relocation, its not the police's fault there arent enough of them on the beat but rather the politicians, and ultimatly us all for not properly taking a serious interest in local and national politics, by the way if you see a silver estate sailing past, a 'little' over the limit give me a wave
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject:
GPS_fan wrote:
According to Government spin, there are now more police officers than ever before...but where are they all because you never see them?!
Spin is what it must be, as even we the Police don't know where they are.
GPS_fan wrote:
I've just travelled from the south coast to the Lake District and back and only saw THREE police cars patrolling the motorway the whole time - and one of those was with a car on its side....in the good old days, there were police cars at regular intervals down the M6 etc.
Traffic officers (or Road Policing officers as we are all branded these days) have definately thinned out over the years. In my force, in the past 10 years, our Traffic Branch has almost halved. I am sure the public at large would prefer to see more Traffic police than more cameras. We need to concentrate on poor driving, the lack of valid documents and getting travelling criminals off the roads, rather than just speed.
GPS_fan wrote:
The only other police were trying desperately to cause as much traffic chaos as possible at an event in the Lake District and one plod even had a camera in his hand taking photos of the Red Arrows whilst on duty.
I hardly think the Police were 'trying' to cause chaos. We get used for all sorts of events and are usually short staffed when we do, so we have to make the best of a bad lot, but our hands are regularly tied. If we didn't try to help the public when an event was on, then the resulting chaos would be our fault too.
As for taking a photo of the Red Arrows whilst on duty. That's hardly a crime. I'm sure the traffic didn't suffer for the two seconds that took. You are a self confessed 'Eddie' spotter, have you never done that in work time ? _________________ Tommo...
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:18 am Post subject:
999tommo wrote:
even we the Police don't know where they are.
if the police don't know where their officers are, no wonder the crooks keep getting away
999tommo wrote:
As for taking a photo of the Red Arrows whilst on duty. That's hardly a crime. I'm sure the traffic didn't suffer for the two seconds that took.
I agree that taking a photo of the Red Arrows is harmless in itself - but when that officer is in the road neglecting his duties directing traffic, then the " two seconds that took" could possibly lead to an accident...so in this instance the officer should have had his mind (and eyes) on the job.
With drivers possibly being distracted and more pedestrians in the road than on the pavement it was just an accident waiting to happen and on this occasion that officer should have been concentrating on the job....in my opinion anyway
If that same officer had been on royal protection duty, would it have been OK for him to takes his eyes off the job and get his camera out? I very much doubt it.
999tommo wrote:
You are a self confessed 'Eddie' spotter, have you never done that in work time ?
...hardly, I'm stuck to a desk on a 'no through road' so we don't have too many 'Eddies' passing by ...but I know exactly what you're getting at because in a previous thread when people were slating police for using blue lights when they shouldn't I brought up the paperclip and office stationery scenario and supported the police in that instance
...and at the end of the day we both agree that there really aren't as many police officers either as there probably should be or as there used to be _________________ Andy
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:44 am Post subject:
Taking photos of aircraft is fine IF the circumstances dictate so. The silly incident a couple of years ago was a Police officer who took a picture of a Tornado aircraft with a speed gun - the Radar was detected by the plane alerting the pilot - sheer stupidity it could have caused the loss of aircrew and an aircraft due to distraction - I guess there are idiots in all professions though - Mike
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:05 am Post subject:
mikealder wrote:
Taking photos of aircraft is fine IF the circumstances dictate so. The silly incident a couple of years ago was a Police officer who took a picture of a Tornado aircraft with a speed gun - the Radar was detected by the plane alerting the pilot - sheer stupidity it could have caused the loss of aircrew and an aircraft due to distraction - I guess there are idiots in all professions though - Mike
In these circumstances, the cop WAS stupid. Not because the radar signal would affect the aircraft, it definately wouldn't. But because if the aircraft had primed missiles and was leaving our airspace for Iraq or wherever, it's missiles would automatically locate radar sources as targets. Result - one dead copper. Stupid Boy Pike. _________________ Tommo...
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:08 am Post subject:
If that had been an American pilot, he would have probably been hit by "friendly fire"
I wouldn't have thought that a hand held radar unit would give readings high enough for a fighter, so this policeman would have been wasting his time, but somebody may correct me on that. _________________ Andy
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:14 am Post subject:
GPS_fan wrote:
If that had been an American pilot, he would have probably been hit by "friendly fire"
I wouldn't have thought that a hand held radar unit would give readings high enough for a fighter, so this policeman would have been wasting his time, but somebody may correct me on that.
I would have thought not, but there again, the radar device (as it was when this incident allegedly occurred) wouldn't have picked up the speed of the plane anyway unless it was at the end of the runway as the plane took off. These old devices only had a few hundred yards of range. Hand held lasers on the other hand, have far better ranging. _________________ Tommo...
i just want to say that i admire your openness and honesty and go onto say i have read a lot of your comments on this site and found them to be on the whole fair and impartial, and before anyone gets at me, no i am not a copper and i have very little to do with them, but there are good ones as well as bad, ....................................................................... The trouble is we have slept walked into a dictatorship under Blair and now the unelected one, and they have excelled in blame relocation, its not the police's fault there arent enough of them on the beat but rather the politicians, and ultimatly us all for not properly taking a serious interest in local and national politics........
Sorry 999tommo i haven't much time to reply due to work, but i agree with the above view, i understand that policies are laid out by others, rather than the PC on the beat.
The Government (includes others in power over the past twenty years) have fouled up big time by changing the work load to office rather than "on the street".
Quote:
......................but before you start to criticise the amount of police on the streets or the duties they perform question your reaction when your boss tells you to do something, which may not be in everyones best interest or the most popular thing to do, do you refuse to do it because it will make you unpopular or do you do your job and work towards improving your lot and hopefully your company by being pro-active................
Although this is true and the reason is understood, this is where respect has been lost, the police on the beat are becoming "robots", with often little flexibility, although this again isn't the fault of "plod" but their bosses, it is where the division between human contact and "robot" is becoming greater and where mechanical gadgets such as cameras are relied upon more and more.
Unless the police return to more human contact the situation and attitudes to the police can only get worse. _________________ TomTom Go 60
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:33 am Post subject:
GLF wrote:
Although this is true and the reason is understood, this is where respect has been lost, the police on the beat are becoming "robots", with often little flexibility, although this again isn't the fault of "plod" but their bosses, it is where the division between human contact and "robot" is becoming greater and where mechanical gadgets such as cameras are relied upon more and more.
I don't agree that we are becoming robots, but there is far more emphasis these days on budgets, best use of money and resources and other matters best kept for running a business. The Police should not be considered a business. If it has to be, then perhaps I should be considered a 'shareholder' and collect some of the cash from fixed penalty fines. You can bet your bottom dollar that officers would work their butts off then, much to the annoyance of the public at large.
As it stands, we feel as hard-done-by as the public. Trying to do all that is expected of us in a day with the limited time and resources is futile and sooner or later, something's gonna break. _________________ Tommo...
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject:
999tommo wrote:
You can bet your bottom dollar that officers would work their butts off then, much to the annoyance of the public at large.
As it stands, we feel as hard-done-by as the public. Trying to do all that is expected of us in a day with the limited time and resources is futile and sooner or later, something's gonna break.
Those other popular uniformed people (traffic wardens) seem to work on a commission basis these days but I see a few potential problems. For example, if a traffic officer is attending a serious accident, he/she will be unable to earn any commission for the duration of that incident _________________ Andy
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject:
999tommo wrote:
I would have thought not, but there again, the radar device (as it was when this incident allegedly occurred) wouldn't have picked up the speed of the plane anyway unless it was at the end of the runway as the plane took off. These old devices only had a few hundred yards of range. Hand held lasers on the other hand, have far better ranging.
Quite aside from this, the RADAR units will only record up to a particular maximum speed. I would presume that the aircraft would have been travelling at well over 200 MPH so they gun would have probably discounted the speed as out of range and not displayed anything.
Remember the "test" they did on Top Gear? The Gatso refused to flash anything over about 160 MPH. That said, there was a biker done for 176 or thereabouts by a laser so maybe the max speed varies depending on the device type?
All this is presuming that the original Tornado vs Police story is anything but an urban legend... _________________ Gone fishing!
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...but I know exactly what you're getting at because in a previous thread when people were slating police for using blue lights when they shouldn't I brought up the paperclip and office stationery scenario and supported the police in that instance
