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Easy.....You show 'Plod' your car, which isn't damaged and has no child inners splattered on it. Must've been a cloned car !
8O That easy! 8O
Sorry, with all respect, I don't think so somehow.
If life was so "cut and shut" as that, wouldn't it be good.
I suspect the situation would be far more sinister, you wouldn’t necessary have blood and guts on the car, it depends how they were struck. It would be a case of “guilty until proved innocent” maybe not in the eye of the law, but defiantly in the early days of police questioning. The trouble is, even if proved innocent there is always a proportion who says – I wonder, did he get a way with it?
My car, carry’s marks just from drivers who can’t park their car in Tesco’s, but I can’t prove who did it, so I have unexplained scrapes.
Sorry if i'm off topic 999tommo I'm not trying to make you paddle up Niagara Falls but i feel it is a valid point. _________________ TomTom Go 60
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject:
GJF wrote:
999tommo wrote:
Quote:
Easy.....You show 'Plod' your car, which isn't damaged and has no child inners splattered on it. Must've been a cloned car !
8O That easy! 8O
Sorry, with all respect, I don't think so somehow.
If life was so "cut and shut" as that, wouldn't it be good.
I suspect the situation would be far more sinister, you wouldn’t necessary have blood and guts on the car, it depends how they were struck. It would be a case of “guilty until proved innocent” maybe not in the eye of the law, but defiantly in the early days of police questioning. The trouble is, even if proved innocent there is always a proportion who says – I wonder, did he get a way with it?
My car, carry’s marks just from drivers who can’t park their car in Tesco’s, but I can’t prove who did it, so I have unexplained scrapes.
Sorry if i'm off topic 999tommo I'm not trying to make you paddle up Niagara Falls but i feel it is a valid point.
No it's fine. I like a debate. To me this is what the forum is all about.
I fail to see your point though in the circumstances you have described. If YOU were the victim of a hit and run accident and a witness got details of the offending car, would you not want the Police to investigate it as best they could ? They may have to seize a car and forensically examine it and if that was mine and I was innocent, I wouldn't be best pleased, but sometimes you have to look at the other side of the situation.
Here is a genuine situation, which happened in our Force area. A drunk pedestrian was walking on a main road when he was hit by a drunk and drugged driver. The pedestrian was caught under the car and dragged for two hundred yards and left to die. From minor debris at the locus, it was established that the offending vehicle was a red VW Golf with an age span covering about 4 years, but no registration number known as there were no witnesses. Hundreds of red VW Golfs were subjected to in depth examination. Eventually after a tip off, a red Golf was found in a farm. It had been cleaned and all damaged parts replaced. It was immaculate, which it wouldn't have been if it had been the offending car. It WAS the right car and subsequently identified by a piece of plastic no bigger than the end of your thumb, which was found at the locus. It fitted like a jigsaw into a piece of plastic under trim on the Golf. The driver was identified by fibres in the car and is now in prison.
Sorry to waffle on, but in the above incident, hundreds of innocent people were inconvenienced in the investigation, but the right guy was identified and punished. Wrongly accused people ? NO. Made to feel like a criminals ? PERHAPS. Were the Police right to do what they did ? ABSOLUTELY. _________________ Tommo...
I fail to see your point though in the circumstances you have described.
My point is not the scenario quoted with the VW, if I owned a similar car in a accident and all models were being viewed for elimination purposes, I would be delighted to help and who wouldn’t.
My point is having a car that is the same make/model and year as your own WITH YOUR OWN NUMBER PLATE REGISTRATION NUMBER – “CLONED” attached to a “DIFFERENT” car, but looking like a photograph of your own – BUT IT ISN’T YOUR CAR, being used for an illegal purpose and understandably getting blamed for whatever act was caused by the “cloned” model. Additionally being in a personal position where it would be difficult to talk yourself out of it easily, although you were infact innocent. _________________ TomTom Go 60
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Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject:
Another thought on speed cameras being sited to make money.
I can see the point of having some cameras on some roads and when they first started to appear they seemed, to me, to do a good job, but then someone realised there was easy money in the making and they bred like rabbits.
Several months ago there were reports that there would be fewer new cameras, but this has changed and not only will there be more but they will no longer have to be painted in bright colours and once again, in effect, be hidden.
It's been reported the new cameras are expected to make an extra xx million pounds per year.
Think about it, if they are expected to make all those extra millions then they obviously won't be doing the job they are intended for i.e. slow traffic and stop serious injuries or deaths.
My personal opinion? They are there primarily to make money, if they really worked revenue would go down. _________________ Formerly known as Lost_Property
And NO that's NOT me in the Avatar.
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Motorcyclists 'Escape'
GPS_fan wrote:
With a increase in the number of front-facing speed cameras, speeding motorcyclists are getting away with it because the vast majority of motorbikes do NOT have a front number plate.
True, motorcyclists don't have to worry too much about SPECS and truvelo cameras but these are still a small fraction of the total cameras out there. Furthermore, if you routinely speed through a truvel the police will eventually track you down so it's not a good thing to do.
The suggestion that motorcyclists be fitted with transponders so they can be identified is a clever one. Pick on a fringe section of road users who no one likes that much (white van man, 4x4's on the school run, motorcyclists, Max Power boys etc) and use that as the thin end of the wedge.
Be very careful when the law makers play on our prejudices like this.
If they do that then it won't be long till EVERYONE gets them and the government's dream of a big brother society where your every move is monitored moves a step closer.
GJF wrote:
Decent moulded alloy number plates as in Germany and other European countries.
As in Europe, this plate could be part of the vehicle road tax system, (Also include Insurance and MOT) so instead of buying a silly piece of paper to put in the window, it’s all in the plate and easier to read on cameras, so reducing road tax invaders.
GJF has hit the nail on the head here.
Most other countries have number plates which are issued by the government only. It is simply not permitted to make your own number plates with misrepresented letters, crazy italic fonts, bolts in funny places to change the letters, biker plates with letters 1 inch high and all the other nonsense that goes on in the UK.
As long as UK plates are made the way they are, people will clone them. Licensing the plate makers was a great idea but you can still buy a "show plate" with illegal letter spacing/typeface/background so long as you agree that it's "not for road use", wink wink, nudge nudge.
The answer to the problem is not more electronic surveillance, it's more police on the ground manning checkpoints and getting these idiots off the road. Think about it, if a vehicle is has no tax, insured, MOT or it's cloned then the driver is wanted for some other crime.
Then you see these idiots on TV who get chased by the police for ages. Turns out they are disqualified, no insurance etc and they get fine £200 because they are on the dole so they have no money. You can't get an old banger insured for less than £500 in London. Where's the deterrent in the pathetic fines that these people are getting?
Robotized enforcement has been proven to do only one thing and that is make money. Lets have more random checkpoints to pre-emptively get these idiots off the road before they cause some damage! Bring in random alcohol breath testing while they are at it.
(Edited to format GJF's quote properly) _________________ Gone fishing!
Last edited by Skippy on Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Motorcyclists 'Escape'
Skippy wrote:
The answer to the problem is not more electronic surveillance, it's more police on the ground manning checkpoints and getting these idiots off the road.
This is exactly what Tommo999 and I have been saying.
I think that statistics show drink-drivers tend to drive more slowly (all be it in an erratic manner), so they're not likely to be snapped by a speed camera.
Road rage, dangerous driving and a whole host of other things go undetected by cameras.
Good traffic officers like Tommo999 also have a sixth sense for a car or driver that's suspect.
If cameras are for safety, then why are more of them not located near schools, playgrounds and other 'danger zones'?
As mentioned, the fines for driving whilst disqualified or without insurance, tax, MOT etc are clearly not an incentive because they cost less than a year's insurance...and when you weigh that up against the likelihood of being caught.
Of course, crime doesn't pay though...obeying the law just costs more _________________ Andy
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Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Motorcyclists 'Escape'
Skippy wrote:
Pick on a fringe section of road users who no one likes that much (white van man)
Gerroff!! Go pick on VW Golfs, it's all their fault.
Apart from that disgraceful (and completely inadvertent and unintended) error, everything Skippy wrote is good sense, especially this
Quote:
The answer to the problem is ... more police on the ground manning checkpoints and getting these idiots off the road.
But we can only dream. When I win the lottery I'll hire a man (a very big, very fierce man) to do all sorts of things like reporting the baddies. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 242 Location: Wrexhaml, UK
Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:30 pm Post subject:
I think its a great idea that motorcycles get away with forward facing cameras, _________________ TomTom Go 700,
with External Antenna, External Mike
App v7.160, OS:2324, GPS v1.21, Boot 5.4201
Western_Europe-Map v650.1127
I think its a great idea that motorcycles get away with forward facing cameras,
Not when your legs are sticking out of the passenger side window of the car that apparently diddn't see you coming! If all motorcyclist kept to the speed limit, I wouldn't have a problem with this statment, but since most Motorcyclists that say this because they wish to speed through cameras, then where is the deterrent! _________________ Dom
HERE LIES PND May it rest in peace.
Navigon 7310/iPhone Navigon&Copilot
I think its a great idea that motorcycles get away with forward facing cameras,
You are not doing yourself, or other motorcyclists a favour with that comment.
As an ex (haven't a bike at this moment) motorcyclist, there are a lot of "anti-biker's" and "ignorant to biker's" car drivers who "tar everyone with the same brush". To biker's who think they have their own "special" laws and take the p**s - if you play with fire, don't complain when you get burnt! _________________ TomTom Go 60
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:02 am Post subject:
GJF wrote:
You are not doing yourself, or other motorcyclists a favour with that comment.
FazerUK was having a bit of a troll, I think. I'm sure bikers get away with some things, but they have to put up with a lot of other stuff thrown at us (often literally) that other road users don't have to contend with.
GJF wrote:
As an ex (haven't a bike at this moment) motorcyclist, there are a lot of "anti-biker's" and "ignorant to biker's" car drivers who "tar everyone with the same brush".
To be honest, I really don't care what other people think of me. I'm reasonably polite on the road but I do take advantage of the abilities of my bike.
Sure, some people don't like bikers, but lots of people don't like 4x4's, sports cars, people carriers, taxis, white vans**, buses, learner drivers and cyclists too, it doesn't mean all these road users are bad.
** DennisN is an notable exception to this of course ;) _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject:
Skippy wrote:
Sure, some people don't like bikers, but lots of people don't like 4x4's, sports cars, people carriers, taxis, white vans**, buses, learner drivers and cyclists too, it doesn't mean all these road users are bad.
I don't like any other road user because the b******s are all getting in my way
As our roads become more congested, our tolerance of others appears to be deminishing
If you had to re-sit your driving test tomorrow, would you pass the test if you drove the way you do on a day to day basis
...and if not, why not and should you therefore be criticising others? _________________ Andy
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Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject:
GPS_fan wrote:
If you had to re-sit your driving test tomorrow, would you pass the test if you drove the way you do on a day to day basis ...and if not, why not and should you therefore be criticising others?
If I drove as I do every day then it's likely that I would fail because the examiner couldn't keep up with me! _________________ Gone fishing!
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I'm sure bikers get away with some things, but they have to put up with a lot of other stuff thrown at us (often literally) that other road users don't have to contend with.
