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Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: Motorcyclists 'Escape'
With a increase in the number of front-facing speed cameras, speeding motorcyclists are getting away with it because the vast majority of motorbikes do NOT have a front number plate.
At least with GATSO and other rear-facing cameras, these bikers get clocked as well.
Is it fair, then, that motorcyclists are escaping points and fines when other motorists continue to be prosecuted
If the purpose of these cameras is 'safety', then surely a speeding motorcyclist is also a danger and/or at danger. _________________ Andy
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject:
This was discussed on BBC News last Saturday morning, one option under consideration is to make it compulsory to fit a device to the bike to transmit the owner information which a new style of camera could record (probably an addition to existing cameras would be possible as well so they can capture the details) - not good news if you break the rules and ride a bike.
The same device could also be fitted to cars at some future point in an attemt to alleviate the "number plate clone" problem that is sweeping both the UK and parts of Europe -Mike
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:20 am Post subject:
PaulB2005
'But What If' can be applied to any situation. There is no foolproof method of preventing people speeding, or preventing fatal accidents. _________________ Tommo...
Slightly off topic, but what is being done about "cloned" plates?
I feel this is now one of the more alarming issues today, as looking for the "appropiate" car, (Model, colour etc) taking down the reg' number and getting plates made seems to be easy as buying a cake.
Shouldn't something be done about the ease number plates can be made?
How expensive is it to add a transmitter?
Or are we back to "big brother" and his blackbox, to get around this problem?
Bigger question -
Has anyone got the desire to do anything about it?
Meanwhile there is a lot of explaining to do if you get nicked for speeding etc, in an area, you have never even been. _________________ TomTom Go 60
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Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:42 am Post subject:
"You can't make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious" Murphy's Law
This thread seems to have got more deep and meaningful than I'd expected.
My original post was as much an observation as anything because the powers that be seem to be moving more in favour of the front view camera in order that the "photographic evidence" shows the driver's face. However, with motorcyclists, they not only don't have a front number plate but the rider's face is obscured by their helmet.
Even if we're all micro-chipped for ID purposes, would that prove that a person in the car was the driver or just a passenger? The sensor would surely detect all micro-chips
Unfortunately, we live in the real world rather than an ideal world and "life's a beach" _________________ Andy
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This thread seems to have got more deep and meaningful than I'd expected.
OK, if you don't want me to side track and be "deep and meaningful", lets keep light hearted and give your opinion of a motorcyclist with NO REAR NUMBER PLATE.
Obviously front number plates are not the only issue, it was worth this rider removing the rear plates for some fun! _________________ TomTom Go 60
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006 Posts: 9323 Location: Durham, UK
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject:
Quote:
'But What If' can be applied to any situation. There is no foolproof method of preventing people speeding, or preventing fatal accidents.
As the article above shows the presence of a real police patrol can catch these people. Automated systems don't. IF speeding is so dangerous why don't they post patrols to stop them AT THE TIME of the offense?
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject:
This boy Jesty is obviously a doughball. If you wear distinctive leathers and have a distinctive bike, you will be noticed, even if you do nothing wrong. When you do do wrong, someone will remember you.
Obviously pratts like this will never be erradicated completely, but will hopefully get what's coming to them eventually.
As for Police Patrols being in the area of the speeding offences, well that would be simple. All we need are about 1,000,000 extra cops.
Yes it would be great to put Police in the right place at the right time, but there are tens of thousands of places throughout the UK. Which one should we be at ? _________________ Tommo...
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject:
GJF wrote:
Slightly off topic, but what is being done about "cloned" plates?
I feel this is now one of the more alarming issues today, as looking for the "appropiate" car, (Model, colour etc) taking down the reg' number and getting plates made seems to be easy as buying a cake.
Shouldn't something be done about the ease number plates can be made?
How expensive is it to add a transmitter?
Or are we back to "big brother" and his blackbox, to get around this problem?
Bigger question -
Has anyone got the desire to do anything about it?
Meanwhile there is a lot of explaining to do if you get nicked for speeding etc, in an area, you have never even been.
Unfortunately, every piece of legislation which is brought in to attempt to combat crime, gets people thinking "how can i get round this". You will never prevent cloned plates. It is getting more and more difficult to have a plate made, but what's to stop someone cutting a piece of perspex and sticking numbers and letters available from any DIY store onto it ? How do you prevent that ? _________________ Tommo...
Unfortunately, every piece of legislation which is brought in to attempt to combat crime, gets people thinking "how can i get round this". You will never prevent cloned plates. It is getting more and more difficult to have a plate made, but what's to stop someone cutting a piece of perspex and sticking numbers and letters available from any DIY store onto it ? How do you prevent that ?
Decent moulded alloy number plates as in Germany and other European countries.
It wouldn’t take much to have a more updated version with (for instance) the car VIN number on a chip inside the plate *, this chip could be “paired” with a similar chip inside the car left by the manufacturer, maybe emitting a signal if not “paired”.
There is already a national database held by garages, whenever I require car part’s I just give my registration number and they hold all the info on my car.
I’m sure, that if the will was there, it wouldn’t take a lot to put into operation, the same “chip” could be read by the police on a chase, whether by road or air and they would know all about the vehicle before they see it.
As in Europe, this plate could be part of the vehicle road tax system, ** so instead of buying a silly piece of paper to put in the window, it’s all in the plate and easier to read on cameras, so reducing road tax invaders.
I don’t like (or even wish) to extend this into “blackboxes” but the number plate variation would be a lot cheaper and cause a lot less controversy regarding the public, but it takes forward a large step into eliminating “plate cloning” and road tax evasion, which is now getting out of hand.
* If not paired, could stop engine from working.
**Also include Insurance and MOT. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
Joined: Feb 07, 2006 Posts: 616 Location: Midlothian
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject:
GJF wrote:
Decent moulded alloy number plates as in Germany and other European countries.
Yes, however this could not be imposed on older vehicles and could only be made legal on new cars. How many new car reg's are used for illegal purposes, petrol drive off's for example.
I'm not meaning to put you down. Your idea has some merit, but it will be many years before it has any impact. _________________ Tommo...
I'm not meaning to put you down. Your idea has some merit, but it will be many years before it has any impact.
8O Oh well, just a thought
Quote:
How many new car reg's are used for illegal purposes, petrol drive off's for example.
I did that once, I was so stressed out with work I filled up and drove out of a BP garage, forgetting to pay. When i suddenly "remembered" (about 30 minutes later) i returned back to the garage, by now it was about one hour later - offering the money, expecting the police to jump out the woodwork, they looked at me surprised and hadn't even noticed i was missing. _________________ TomTom Go 60
Garmin Nüvi 660, Firmware v4.90
Drive-Smart GPS with Loader v1.4.16
HTC Advantage X7500 MS 6.1 Tchart Speed Sentry
Satmap Active 10, Software v1.16
Fuzion 32 HUD Bluetooth GPS receiver
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 Posts: 2789 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject:
999tommo wrote:
All we need are about 1,000,000 extra cops.
Is this just for crime-ridden Scotland or does the rest of the UK get a share of these extra officers as well?
I think that you and I have agreed from the start that extra traffic officers will help reduce motoring offences but what would be a realistic number?
...the only way to erradicate traffic offences would be to have an officer sitting in every car, truck or pillion on every bike - on second thoughts, bikers on L plates can't carry pillions so having a traffic officer on board would be an offence in itself.
Coming back slightly more on topic, if my plate was cloned, how easy would it be to demonstrate that it was neither my car nor me driving? The problem is that generally, it's an "innocent until proven guilty" approach although with motoring offences, it seems to be more of a "guilty until proven innocent" philosophy and proving your innocence is not necessarily all that easy _________________ Andy
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