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PaulB2005
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Joined: Jan 04, 2006
Posts: 9323
Location: Durham, UK
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 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | before your area becomes Carshalton Beaches... |
Oh i don't know - some sand from next doors extension, a dog doo, plastic bags and a tar covered stick and my front garden is as good as any British Beach. Now if only i could find some radioactive and / or medical waste to complete the effect.... |
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DaveNN
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Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 337
Location: Lancs
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | | Quote: | | before your area becomes Carshalton Beaches... |
Oh i don't know - some sand from next doors extension, a dog doo, plastic bags and a tar covered stick and my front garden is as good as any British Beach. Now if only i could find some radioactive and / or medical waste to complete the effect.... |
Have a drive up to Seascale in Cumbria- there'll be plenty of radioactive sand, poo, bags there!!...it's just up/down the road from Sellafield!!.....now that IS a place to work!!!
Went a bit off topic earlier....Ooops!! 
Cheers
DN |
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999tommo
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| DaveNN wrote: | Well..........
It was a Sunday....when the clocks were put back to GMT.
It was quite an old Gatso...
Gatso's (then) did not allow for GMT/BST switch over (according to the Traffic cop...who was showing me a video of me 'making progress' above the posted limit..a few months later)
I have considered that the Traffic Cop may have been taking the P a little & just wanted me to feel even worse!! |
I am a Traffic Cop and a member of my shift got flashed by a red light camera this spring on his way home, the day the clocks changed. It was around 0230 (BST), but the time on the picture read 0130 as the clock did not change automatically.
Not all cameras in our force are 'live' at one time, but we can call an internal number to find out if a camera was live at a specific time (not that we can get away with it, just so we can prepare for the worst). On this occasion when my colleague called, he was told the camera was live, but due to an anomaly in the clock being at the wrong time, he would not face prosecution. This applies to all offenders in our force, but I can't speak for other forces being so fair.
This is years on and it still happens. I think this refers to older sited cameras which still have a film which gets changed manually, as opposed to the newer digital ones which can transmit their data electronically and don't need human intervention.
Summing up, the Plod was telling the truth and you should have contested it.
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Tommo...
Regularly absent, but still here in spirit ! |
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999tommo
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| PaulB2005 wrote: | Well then i missed the point of the tale then... I thought the point was the clock in the GATSO hadn't changed and so it showed YOU speeding but at a time you weren't there?
If so then the story is the same because the kid was blamed for a call he didn't make because the clock wasn't corrected and was wrongly attributed to a call he made an hour earlier....
If not, can you please explain what the point was in your tale? |
The difference is that Dave committed an offence but could have got off on a technicality due to the incorrect time....
Whereas the student nearly got locked up for years for something he didn't do, on a technicality due to the incorrect time....
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Tommo...
Regularly absent, but still here in spirit !
Last edited by 999tommo on Sat May 26, 2007 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mikealder
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 19638
Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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One quick question if I may, and this is not something I intend to test:
If you were running a position logging software on the navigation device that records your present position and time (which are both derived from a calibrated source - the US DoD) - would it be possible to use this to prove that at the exact time the picture were taken by a speed camera that you were effectively "out of range" of said camera.
The point I am trying to make is the actual clock in the camera is not (as far as I know) traceable to a calibrated time standard and therefore at the exact point the picture were taken you might not have passed said camera, or could be half a mile further down the road.
I agree the logging system would also prove you were speeding BUT the evidence from the camera states a specific time, if you were elsewhere at that specific time embedded in the photograph then the evidence is questionable at best. Would probably take a very good lawyer - any thoughts?? - Mike |
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999tommo
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Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think if you had Mr Freeman (lawyer of the stars) then he could probably get you off, but how can you download this data you speak of ? You could make yourself a small fortune selling it. 
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Tommo...
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mikealder
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 19638
Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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The software has been available for quite a while to log trips, just make sure :
First you have a full working back-up on the PC.
Second there is sufficiant spare space on the SD card,
Visit This page and grab the NMEA logger, it simply runs while the device navigates and warns of cameras etc. (there are a number of other additions for the TomTom units on the same site if you look around whilst there.
You can then use GPS Babel to use the data in other applications - Google etc - Mike |
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999tommo
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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If you had ever received a court complaint (summons) through the door, it would normally describe the charges against you....starting.....
"On 26th May 2007 in High Street, Anytown, YOU DID, drive a motor vehicle namely a motor car, registered number ABC123D......etc etc"
The time is never mentioned for the very reason you mention. If it is not brought up, it doesn't have to be proven.
When I write something in my notebook, I look at my watch and it may say 15:11, so I would write 15:10 in my book for convenience. My coleague would look at his watch which might say 15:13, and he may write 15:15 in his book. In our Police reports we would write "About 15:10 hours....etc etc". We are not so precise as to sat 'At' whatever time because our watches are not synchonised with any time signal.
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Tommo...
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mikealder
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Joined: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 19638
Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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But the photograph contains the date and time to the second, does it not? - it is that which is questionable, sure it would get you a bad name with the local force, and as I said its not something I aim to try out as I don't speed.
This is more the question of knowing you don't speed and have evidence to prove you were not speeding at the time the camera took the photograph - Mike |
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999tommo
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I know what you mean, but it all comes down to reasonable doubt. If you have an excellent lawyer and a crap crown prosecutor (or procurator fiscal in Scotland) then you could get off with anything.
There has to be a certain amount of allowance made for clock times, until the time comes when every clock is controlled by the same source.
We have been involved in pursuits of stolen cars with more than one video car. You could play two Police videos from different cars, showing the same pursuit, side by side and you can see the same thing happening on both videos but the times will be different. It doesn't mean the incident didn't happen.
Perhaps it should....I dunno.
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Tommo...
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DaveNN
Lifetime Member
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Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 337
Location: Lancs
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| 999tommo wrote: | | DaveNN wrote: | Well..........
It was a Sunday....when the clocks were put back to GMT.
It was quite an old Gatso...
Gatso's (then) did not allow for GMT/BST switch over (according to the Traffic cop...who was showing me a video of me 'making progress' above the posted limit..a few months later)
I have considered that the Traffic Cop may have been taking the P a little & just wanted me to feel even worse!! |
I am a Traffic Cop and a member of my shift got flashed by a red light camera this spring on his way home, the day the clocks changed. It was around 0230 (BST), but the time on the picture read 0130 as the clock did not change automatically.
Not all cameras in our force are 'live' at one time, but we can call an internal number to find out if a camera was live at a specific time (not that we can get away with it, just so we can prepare for the worst). On this occasion when my colleague called, he was told the camera was live, but due to an anomaly in the clock being at the wrong time, he would not face prosecution. This applies to all offenders in our force, but I can't speak for other forces being so fair.
This is years on and it still happens. I think this refers to older sited cameras which still have a film which gets changed manually, as opposed to the newer digital ones which can transmit their data electronically and don't need human intervention.
Summing up, the Plod was telling the truth and you should have contested it. |
Thank you for this...I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry now!!
To be fair..what ever comes around goes around.
If you ever see a silver(ish) Vectra Estate 'making progress' through your neck of the woods, perhaps you would turn a blind eye??
Or at worst, tell me off & sign my battered 'Roadcraft' book?
Cheers
DN |
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DaveNN
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Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 337
Location: Lancs
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| mikealder wrote: | One quick question if I may, and this is not something I intend to test:
If you were running a position logging software on the navigation device that records your present position and time (which are both derived from a calibrated source - the US DoD) - would it be possible to use this to prove that at the exact time the picture were taken by a speed camera that you were effectively "out of range" of said camera.
The point I am trying to make is the actual clock in the camera is not (as far as I know) traceable to a calibrated time standard and therefore at the exact point the picture were taken you might not have passed said camera, or could be half a mile further down the road.
I agree the logging system would also prove you were speeding BUT the evidence from the camera states a specific time, if you were elsewhere at that specific time embedded in the photograph then the evidence is questionable at best. Would probably take a very good lawyer - any thoughts?? - Mike |
Mike,
That's why I didn't contest it...I couldn't see the point in (potentially) making a bad situation worse AND my DL was spotless at the time.
Did you ever get a chance to look at the info I gave you? |
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999tommo
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Dave NN
If you have at least gone to the expense and effort of buying a copy of Roadcraft, at least it shows you have some pride in your driving, or wish to better yourself. I would certainly consider allowing you to swerve a prosecution. (Lothian and Borders Police) 
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Tommo...
Regularly absent, but still here in spirit ! |
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DaveNN
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Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 337
Location: Lancs
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| 999tommo wrote: | Dave NN
If you have at least gone to the expense and effort of buying a copy of Roadcraft, at least it shows you have some pride in your driving, or wish to better yourself. I would certainly consider allowing you to swerve a prosecution. (Lothian and Borders Police) |
Excellent!!. & Thank you!
...saying that though, I do behave myself & am not going to push my luck! :D
I've had that book for ages (just after I passed my test...which was nearly 25 years ago). My dad suggested that I join the local Road Safety Association ('commentary' whilst driving etc etc...you know what I mean) & the book was bought as required reading. It should be compulsary reading for all new drivers!!
Cheers
Dave NN |
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999tommo
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Joined: Feb 07, 2006
Posts: 616
Location: Midlothian
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| DaveNN wrote: | It should be compulsary reading for all new drivers!!
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Here here......
If you read it on it's own, it is a bit of a headnipper, but read in conjunction with a training course and it all makes sense.
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Tommo...
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