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Walking route with MM Issue
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Trailblazer
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Joined: Sep 08, 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Walking route with MM Issue Reply with quote

I am using a dell Aim X50v Pda and A Holux GPSlim 236 Gps with Static Navigation turned on (ie, Pedestrian Mode) setup from MM-Sirf.

whilst i am walking a route, the crosshair is moving along the route with me. The Pointer is not visible, and the data box is not showing any information. The system is working though since the crosshair is following the planned route

If i am walking at 2.9MPH or greater, the direction arrow is working ok, but that only works when walking paths or roads. When walking through muddy fields i am walking slower than 3 MPH and the route is not showing properly.

Is there any way of setting it up like my garmin GPS V, so the arrow is always telling me which way i should be going?

Thanks
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mikealder
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Location: Blackpool , Lancs

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should switch Static Navigation OFF for walking and ON when using for driving, this probably explains why your updates are jumping around on the map - Mike
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Trailblazer
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Static Navigation turned on (ie, Pedestrian Mode) setup from MM-Sirf.


Got my phrasing a little wrong there didn't ie.
as it say in brackets, i was using Pedestrian Mode, SN=Off

My updates are not jumping around on the map, they are not being shown at all unless going 2.9MPH or above.

SN Must be turned off, since the pointer is moving along the path that i am following but theres go pointer or information in the info boxes.

Is this not normal. Is my program lying to me, when it says that i have SN off.

I Presume that the TOTMOM GPS Driver should have programmed the GpSlim 236 to NMEA mode at 38400 Baud?

Holux GPS Viewer is displaying telemetry as follows

$gpgga (data)
Łgprmc (data)
$gpgsa (data) etc
I assume then that the sirf has been turned off and is in NMEA mode. Should it be at baud 38400 or 4800 ?

Note: I am doing all these changes via Bluetooth and not the data cable.
Will this be ok nd not render the device useless?

I notice that The position locator in Tomtom navigator is not jumping around all over the place, although it is set to lock on road mode.

I dont know but i assume when SN is turned of and when in memory map following a route the direction and info data should be showing permanently not every few seconds ?

Thats about all i can you in what i am doing. Is this correct. Thanks
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Trailblazer
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:13 pm    Post subject: Update: Reply with quote

I have just been out again with the dog following a route with SN and WAAS both OFF.

What i have found i cant really understand.

The route is being followed
the crosshairs are following me, so that means the GPS is operating OK
The Direction line and pointer are not working very often at all.
The distrance dada are jumping around so must say that telemetry is being received ok although the VMG mark reads 0 a lot of the time, and when the pointer comes to life data is entered in the VMG mark line.

In my conclusion, there is a problem in the Memory map software, ie its response time is crap. It just isn't telling you where to go properly, even though it shows you moving on the map.

Cant it be setup like the Garmin gps's, with a consistent pointer, and great informational screens. If only the Garmin had the OS map overlayed on top of the waypoints it would be an unbeatable device.

Maybe there is a version of garmin that does this but my GPS V does not.
Maybe someone knows if there is one that does?

Surely others must be having these issues ? Sounds like a buggy program to me (non refined)
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7andy
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Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MM v5, Dell Axim X5, Globalsat CF377 GPS. Works perfectly.
If MM was as buggy as you suggest, then the forums over at Memory Map would be full of complaints...

Cheers, 7&Y
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Trailblazer
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Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply, Yours may be working fine, great for you. But mine isn't, and ive been on memory map, and other people are having these problems too.

I have asked this question on there, and other people are now coming to life saying they are having the same issue.

One thing that may be the difference, if i am not mistaken your gps is the cheaper less sesitive than the sirf3 chipsets.
I am finding when the satellite signal is low, the arrow comes to life more often than not. this is because when SN is turned OFF the accuracy of your location is more jumpy, and the GPS thinks you are walking faster and the data updates.
When in strong signal areas, the opposite applies, and this is the problem i am having.

Cheers
Mike
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7andy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...nope. It is SIRF III.

Cheers.
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AllyCat
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 376
Location: Catford, London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I can confirm Trailblazer's observations with MM.v5.1.3. If I select "Goto Mark" and choose "VMG" and "Distance", then when I walk slowly the distance decrements/increments as appropriate, but the VMG stays at zero and the direction arrow is missing. Occasionally, or when walking very briskly, the VMG does become non-zero and the arrow appears.

I've just reinstalled MM2004 and the problem is there as well. So it can't be a recent bug, and the number of tracks/waypoints loaded doesn't seem significant (as there are none in my MM 2004 install).

Cheers, Alan.
_________________
Garmin GPS72H/76/60/45, Etrex H, Mapsource v6.5.
Acer N50,HP114,Loox N560,Dell x50,CF/SD cards to 4/32GB.
RoyalTek,Holux236,Navman B10 & Copilot(Globalsat) BT GPS,TomTom5/6.
Memory Map (v5.4.2 & v5.1.3 OS & Euro), GPS gate,OSGPSconverter.
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Trailblazer
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the problem, its a design fault on the GPslim 236, and BT-321

Ive just bought a Globalsat BT359, and all probs have gone away.

Thought id let you all know. Avoid Holox and Holux (Got Both)
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JohnWB
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Joined: Mar 22, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have a Holux GPslim 236 which works fine with my Orange SPV M1000. I suspect the problem is a compatability issue between the Holux & your Dell Aim X50v Pda rather than a design fault with the Holux or BT-321
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading through this little lot I have seen the same problem on another forum, but cannot remember the actual answer, I will look for it later when back at the main PC. IIRC the problem was the same but involved an ipaq 4700 so the issue might not be with the PDA - Mike
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AllyCat
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
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Location: Catford, London, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

No, it's not the PDA; but Memory Map, Holux and SiRF are jointly responsible for this problem. IMHO SiRF are the prime culprit; I have tried on several occasions to elicit a denial from SiRF on the GpsPasSion forum that the following is the cause:

Memory Map do not calculate the "Direction Arrow" from changes in Lat/Long location, but use the speed data in the NMEA "RMC" sentence (and hide the arrow if the speed is reported as zero). However, SiRF have included some code in their firmware that causes the speed to be reported as zero, if the velocity is less than a pre-determined threshold, which the manufacturer (Holux in this case) is able to choose. Different versions of the Holux 236 firmware don't even seem to have the same threshold: One user has measured it as about 1 knot, but my 236 doesn't report any speed less than 2.6 knots, which often makes the MM direction arrow useless when walking.

Why SiRF have done this is a mystery, when they have developed "Static Navigation" which does much the same, but (usually) can be switched off. It applies only to the NMEA protocol data, not to data sent in SiRF protocol (so it is not a fault in the "GPS engine"), and it's not just a recent bug because my SiRF2 GPS has a similar limit (at about 1.3 knots). My suspicion is that it's a "bodge" to keep some car satnavs happy, unless SiRF just want "their" protocol to look better than NMEA's Smile .

One solution is to use the SiRF protocol in MM, but Holux advise against switching the 236 into SiRF mode (wise advice as they've also managed to botch the serial interfaces). Also, it can be difficult to get some GPSs back into NMEA from SiRF, and some PDAs report numerous checksum errors in the SiRF protocol (which also causes the MM arrow to disappear).

So, this problem hardly belongs in the Memory Map forum, although MM could solve it by calculating the direction arrow from delta position data. Also, why do they blank the direction arrow (except I believe on the phone software), unless they are aware that they are using "faulty" data?

Cheers, Alan.
_________________
Garmin GPS72H/76/60/45, Etrex H, Mapsource v6.5.
Acer N50,HP114,Loox N560,Dell x50,CF/SD cards to 4/32GB.
RoyalTek,Holux236,Navman B10 & Copilot(Globalsat) BT GPS,TomTom5/6.
Memory Map (v5.4.2 & v5.1.3 OS & Euro), GPS gate,OSGPSconverter.
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan, I use This for switching my 236 devices between the two modes with no problems in over 18 months use - I am off walking this weekend so will charge up the 236 units and try them out looking specifically at this issue (SiRF and NMEA modes) as I use MM software - Mike
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AllyCat
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Location: Catford, London, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike, I will be very interested in your observations.

Yes, I tried the TomTom driver some time ago (and intended to come back with a couple of questions in that thread), but find SirfTech more useful, e.g. it can read the SiRF firmware version, which might be particularly relevant with this problem.

I presume you're aware that MM doesn't just switch its own protocol, it actually commands the GPS to switch between NMEA and SiRF (but sometimes fails). However, SiRF doesn't give the "satellites" display in MM, and you can't use TomTom at the same time, using gpsgate (yes I do sometimes Smile ).

Cheers, Alan.
_________________
Garmin GPS72H/76/60/45, Etrex H, Mapsource v6.5.
Acer N50,HP114,Loox N560,Dell x50,CF/SD cards to 4/32GB.
RoyalTek,Holux236,Navman B10 & Copilot(Globalsat) BT GPS,TomTom5/6.
Memory Map (v5.4.2 & v5.1.3 OS & Euro), GPS gate,OSGPSconverter.
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Trailblazer
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Joined: Sep 08, 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike, the tomtom driver is what i have used to switch the holux into sirf mode, but alas i have the same troubles as with NMEA. plus a little scared of rendering the gps as a brick with th bluetooth corruption problem.

Its not my PDA at fault, its been tried on various pda's

I'm happy now that ive got a globalsat, since it works perfect. I would still be interested in your walking results though.

Alan, Wonder if your the same alan that has bantered with me via memory map and via your Tiscali? webmail. both usernames being different but your lingo sounds the same.
If you are then there is an email in your spam account.

If so, i hear that Memory map, has a sirf setting in the GPS menu. Mine doesn't. All i have is NONE, NAVMAN and NMEA.
thus i cannot see how MM can auto switch into sirf mode, when its not available. program version - 5.1.3 build 716

Cheers
Mike
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