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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: TomTom and new congestion zone
On the 19th feb, the London congestion charge zone gets increased.
How are TT planning to add the CC zone changes as an update for v5 & v6/GO/ONE users????
v6/GO/ONE should have this as a matter of course. But v5? Surely it's still under a support cycle - or do TT give up support once a newer version is launched?
The CC Zone boundary is contained in the mapping data; it will take a new map to implement the changes.
So basically everyone with an all in one will be fine, yet PDa/Mobile users get stuffed (yet again) by TT?
Thanks, thought as much. I'll stick with my TT5 I think until TT start playing ball again. Glad I didn't jump in at christmas for TT6 now in their half hearted upgrade program.
Joined: Nov 24, 2003 Posts: 1441 Location: Swansea
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:45 am Post subject:
getsurfers wrote:
So basically everyone with an all in one will be fine, yet PDa/Mobile users get stuffed (yet again) by TT?
What a strange attitude! Basically, TomTom have done what every other satnav company does, ie produce a map which is as up to date as possible at the time of issue. Any changes to roads (or congestion zones) which take place after that will have to wait until a later issue. The same thing happens with paper maps - if you bought a road atlas in December, you wouldn't expect the publisher to rush round to your house in March to pencil in the latest changes!
Robin _________________ TomTom One v3 Europe, Navcore 7.903, Western Europe 835.2420
TomTom Go 720 Europe, Navcore 8.351, Western Europe 855.2884
Satmap Active 10
Plus a lot of other PDA GPS kit, seldom used
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:26 am Post subject:
getsurfers wrote:
So basically everyone with an all in one will be fine
I wish!!! I'll be in just the same position with my GO700 - new map 28 Nov 2006, and my GO710 - new device 1 Dec 2006. Both of them have the current congestion zone. Neither of them offer an update for the February change. I only looked at this post in the hope someone had the answer of how to get the new zone active. _________________ Dennis
So basically everyone with an all in one will be fine, yet PDa/Mobile users get stuffed (yet again) by TT?
What a strange attitude!
Sorry, but although I love using TT, their attitude towards users lately is the pits.
They heavily pushed the updates, and should have known full well about the CC zone changes. This isn't simply a new road etc (which I understand wouldn't be covered), but a major change.
So surely this should mean a free update? There should be some degree of support or warranty on the maps.
Joined: May 10, 2006 Posts: 484 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject:
Last I checked the UK maps covered the whole country, not just London.... Perhaps everyone outside London should accept that only London matters?
I think that map coverage of London will remain as accurate as before, and I remember there being lots of red signs indicating where the zone was. But then I don't just stare at my TT screen, I occasionally look out the windscreen too! _________________ iPhone 4/4S (iOS 5.1.1); TomTom Western Europe (1.10)/USA & Canada (1.10); CoPilot for iPhone (8), UK mapping, Mac OS 10.8/XP Pro/Win7; Tongue firmly in cheek!
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject:
Well I think getsurfers has a legitimate grouse.
Especially so because TT were promising new maps for Q2 of 2006. If they had brought them out then, it would now be legitimate for TT to say the new CG (sorry for the acronym Hirve) would be included in new maps which they'd sell in Feb 2007. Whereas they have left us all now in the mire - they won't have the commercial cheek to bring out chargeable new maps in time for the new CG and they surely don't intend giving us new ones free just 3 months after we've bought these. The most we can hope for is new maps at huge discount covering little more than the CG change.
How long have we and TT known there would be an expanded CG in February 2007? I'd bet at least 50p they already have the new CG in the map they are working on right now. I'd also bet 50p that if they had wanted to do so, it would not have been beyond their ability to include it in the 28th November new maps with different identity tags or whatever, then issue a new software update in February which could stop reading the old ones and start reading the new ones. (That's what seems to have been done with the new App6.xxx speed limit feature on the GOxoo series). After all, it's not a brand new feature, not a new untested programming task, just a case of amending the existing details. You get yourself a couple of moderately intelligent temps and get them to change all the existing boundary points to the new ones, adding additional ones as necessary. I'd bet 50p even I could do it in how long? - a couple of hours? - a couple of days? It's not quite as simple as word processor find and replace, but surely not much more difficult?
Bedbug, this is not fair comment
Quote:
Last I checked the UK maps covered the whole country, not just London.... Perhaps everyone outside London should accept that only London matters?
Apart from the millions who live in the biggest city in the country, a lot of the rest of us go there frequently enough for this to be an issue. I have a satnav for the specific purpose of getting me A to B with the greatest ease (more than 60,000 miles a year). Of course I look out the windscreen. Of course I sometimes ignore what Jane is telling me. But the CG warning allows me to pay it by phone before I get there, or decide whether to avoid it taking consideration of the extra mileage incurred. Personally, I hate delivering to London but I have to put up with it on the occasions I can't get out of going there. Help with the CG zone is what I want. _________________ Dennis
I remember there being lots of red signs indicating where the zone was. But then I don't just stare at my TT screen, I occasionally look out the windscreen too!
Yes, but many London councils seem to hide them behind bushes etc, and sometimes you only get the sign as you've crossed the line and been snapped by Ken's charge dodging system.
But say you're not familiar at all with london, trying to dodge taxi's and buses and the other loonies tearing around (I'm in Lon nearly everyday) and simply trying to figure out where to turn in one piece.
The first you'll be aware of the new zone is when the £100 fine drops on the mat a few days later (yes Ken gets them to you within 4 days normally ;) ). Forgetting to pay, as I have done after a really long day crashing on the sofa, is another matter entirely.
Joined: May 10, 2006 Posts: 484 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:53 am Post subject:
I was simply being sarcastic... I commute into London at least 3 times a week by car and lived there for over 30 years, so I'm not anti-London.
Seeing as the latest maps still lack roads and features that have existed for over 3 years, I'm not surprised that the maps lack the expanded zone. Most of those are minor roads that affect few. If you route near them regularly, they make a GPS a major pain in the a***.
For some reason I have a set of POIs detailing the original zone; perhaps a set to cover the expanded area can be developed that will help everyone survive the devastating impact of the maps not being up-to-date. (Yup, more sarcasm... admittedly not very good, but Nav 6 just guided me on a mystery tour of most of the country lanes of Cornwall to get me back to Oxfordshire, so that's the best I can muster!)
_________________ iPhone 4/4S (iOS 5.1.1); TomTom Western Europe (1.10)/USA & Canada (1.10); CoPilot for iPhone (8), UK mapping, Mac OS 10.8/XP Pro/Win7; Tongue firmly in cheek!
Joined: 14/09/2002 20:56:18 Posts: 5231 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:28 am Post subject:
getsurfers wrote:
Yes, but many London councils seem to hide them behind bushes etc, and sometimes you only get the sign as you've crossed the line and been snapped by Ken's charge dodging system.
But say you're not familiar at all with london, trying to dodge taxi's and buses and the other loonies tearing around (I'm in Lon nearly everyday) and simply trying to figure out where to turn in one piece.
The first you'll be aware of the new zone is when the £100 fine drops on the mat a few days later (yes Ken gets them to you within 4 days normally ;) ). Forgetting to pay, as I have done after a really long day crashing on the sofa, is another matter entirely.
I'm sorry, but this is just plain wrong. There are no signs for the CC Zone hidden behind bushes, or anywhere else. They are painted on the tarmac and are displayed on roadside signs. Observation is, and always has been, the key to driving. _________________ Tim
Joined: May 10, 2006 Posts: 484 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:08 am Post subject:
Tim Buxton wrote:
Observation is, and always has been, the key to driving.
Hell, I saw the tree jump out in front of me alright, but it still didn't help with my insurance claim!
_________________ iPhone 4/4S (iOS 5.1.1); TomTom Western Europe (1.10)/USA & Canada (1.10); CoPilot for iPhone (8), UK mapping, Mac OS 10.8/XP Pro/Win7; Tongue firmly in cheek!
They are painted on the tarmac and are displayed on roadside signs.
Which is the point that you enter the zone, and have lost the ability to nav around.
The pre-warning signs are the ones which are normally hidden behind trees - esp when coming in to the zone from the south east and north IME. These are the smaller ones.
However, as I said someone not familiar with lon has a lot to deal with besides looking for a CC sign! Not getting killed/sideswiped and taking the right turning when there are no road signs as to which 'A' road you are on, and where to turn at a junction (try naving around St Pauls without sat-nav following signs only ;) )
Anyway this is digressing from the point. How much warranty is on purchased maps, and if there is warranty how will TT re-issue the maps for the new CC zone????
Joined: May 10, 2006 Posts: 484 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:52 am Post subject:
I don't get the attitude here... It isn't everyone's right to have maps with any specific information. You make your judgement to buy a product or not. The zone extension was announced in September 2005 - yet you bought a map at the end of 2006 without checking? You didn't post here asking if any owners could check the existence of the extended zone. You expected a map in December 2006 to have feautres not introduced until Feb 2007? Have you asked TT what their intentions are?
If you've read much here, you'll have to accept that it's likely to be a good year before new maps are released which might cover the changes - but don't hold your breath. It's unfortunate that GPS mapping - not specifically under the control of TT - isn't yet mature enough to be updated with the sort of regularity that we enjoy from say, the PGPS camera database. When the maps are available, TT then have to modify them to integrate into their nav system/software. And debug. And beta test. And repeat the cycle as problems are resolved. And then check for compatibility. And god help them if they try to get the code released at the earliest opportunity and can't check it on every device out there. And then there's the whole process of pricing to be determined (get it wrong and certain individuals start suggesting petitions on the grounds of unethical trading because they assume they should get these up-to-the-second accurate maps for free!). This stuff just doesn't happen with the speed that you or I would want.
Tell you what surfers, you clearly don't think TT are doing the job well enough (and I agree, by the way, within reason). You should create an alternative system, based upon the standard you expect of others - keep it constantly accurate and up-to-date, compatible with every device ever created, and never charge the owner anything to update. I promise I'll ditch TT in a second and buy into it. Can't wait. _________________ iPhone 4/4S (iOS 5.1.1); TomTom Western Europe (1.10)/USA & Canada (1.10); CoPilot for iPhone (8), UK mapping, Mac OS 10.8/XP Pro/Win7; Tongue firmly in cheek!
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