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TT5 Unusable?
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RoyC
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:17 am    Post subject: TT5 Unusable? Reply with quote

I am a long term user and fan of TomTom BUT I have reached the point with TT5 where I have lost confidence in it but I don't see any great flood of complaints on this issue. So the purpose of this mail is to find out how to use it better - because presumably it does do better than I think otherwise there would be more complaints. If this isn't the case then the second reason for this post is to try and get some kind of pressure on TT to change the product.


Let me explain. I have several problems with TT5 but the most serious is that the ability to 'program ' road speed settings within TT has gone in TT5 - that's what is called an upgrade! - so all users now use the same route whatever the class of vehicle or need. In a large vehicle I take the view that some roads are simply not adequate to cope and we all must have experiences of that. In my own case I live on a road which is too narrow for anything larger than a car. Unfortunately this road is used by TT as a route between two towns. The biggest culprits are large continental trucks and it is a weekly occurence to see one of them jammed in between the narrow walled section and have to , eventually , be pulled out backwards. This means it causes chaos and is posivtively dangerous.

I have tried to take this matter up with TT directly but the reponses I receive from thir support site are laughable and generally ignore the main point altogether or point me to a feature of TT which 'addresses' the issue - but clearly doesn't.

Recently when Mike Barratt visited Teleatlas we learned that TA maintained 9 levels of road quality from Motorway down to single track roads. Although we don't know what TT5 maintains, in TT3 I only remember about 7 categories and if this is still the case then clearly some amalgamation must be made and this , I suspect, is where the problem occurs. In other words , roads which TA identify as single track, dirt tracks are lumped together with Unnamed roads or something to form the 'worst' category. When TT does it's routing it can use that road type where it feels it appropriate.

Clearly the solution might be for TT to maintain a greater number of road types; compatible with the TA source data, or to bring back road speed programming ( a la TT3) or perhaps to introduce options such as 'Ignore worst quality road'.

How are drivers of large trucks coping? What magic settings have you found to give you adequate routing?

Roy
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alix776
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I'm coping no problem by your post you suggest that most continental drivers are using tomtom this is not the case most foregein hauliers are using dvd satnav systems such as vdo daytona which is recomended by manufacturers such as daf man volvo has its own version but this is just as bad as the vdo system or ethe even worse pioneer system most of these use navteq data my tt5 gives much better routes than the vdo system and the pioneer system on two of our trucks if your looseing faith in tt5 remember dont use fastest or shortest plann at a limited speed i personally use 54 mph as that is what most trucks sit at also remember the insruction to turn down a road is a guide you have the final sayso as to whether you take the turn

is it an a or b road you live on let me know by pm or email pls
the problem of hgvlarge veihcle routing is something im going to be looking at in near future and is something i did ask tomtom at the Celtic Mannor meet up but was give the answer that tomtom is not isterested in b2b sales and is only interested in personal navigation tt5 is quite adequete for hgv/motorhome navigation if you use your common sense and dont follow it blindly and check your route uk drivers have an advantage as time goes on experience tells you what way to go between towns for instance the the route from our yard to the motorway is over a small raod via rufford and hilldale to over parbold to juction 27 all of the local hauliers use this route as its the most efficient route to the m6 in summer you have to be careful as people on a day out who dont know the road use it and dont expect hgv's to be using such a road as its a rural area unfortunatly we sometimes have to point out is a working enviroment as well
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RoyC
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alix - thank you for the comprehensive reply.

I am not a truck driver myself so I was interested to hear of the kind of products which drivers of such vehicles use. I drive a Motor Caravan which has some of the same problems associated with it. I guess I blamed TT because on the occasions that I was able to talk to the driver directly, he was using TomTom but having said that this only represents a few out of many and statistically it may be untrue therefore to draw that conclusion.

Regarding my own usage of TT I do select the QUICKEST route but I was interested to hear your recommendation regarding a speed of 54mph - how do you set that up? I was able to do that it TT3 but I cannot see where in TT5.

I sadly had to pull out of Celtic Manor at the last minute due to a family bereavement but I have had 'discussions' with TT via their inadequate ( a personal view) support procedures and on one occasion they told me that they design TT for cars and ... 'sod the rest of you' ( my words not theirs!) yet now I have a response which says 'we don't have an issue with the use of TT with large trucks' - maybe those statements are compatible but I would like to see more interest in answering my question on their part.

I will repond to you by PM regarding the specific road but regarding your observation about roads close to your depot it is always going to be the case that any SatNav system will compue a route which may not be as good as local knowledge but all I am asking for is a safe one which won't damage my vehicle.

Thanks again for you input.
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alix776
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to change to limited speed its in the planning preferances slect limited speed then you will be ask to set a speed if you always plan aty this speed or select ask when planning then when you plan a route you can choose fsrtest,shortet etc

the route described is the route tt5 gives me as does the aa navigator though i cant remember what cp5 or cp smartphones gives ill have a look
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RoyC
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alix - Thank you for that. I haven't tried it yet but will this afternoon. However I am puzzled by the logic of that.

If it is asking to be routed at a limited speed then how does this help? What changes does this make to the routing algorithms? If this represents the highest speed that you can attain, then presumably it means that there will be little benefit to using Motorways thus forcing you onto less good roads which is pushing things in the opposite direction to that which we need surely?

Sorry I am confused about this.

Roy
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alix776
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

limited speed means the maxinum spped at which you can travel and i think changes the routing alogrythm slightly to use larger roads as these will be faster if you can only travel at a maxinum speed as tey have higher speed values thats how i understand it but could have missed somthing out
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RoyC
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alix - you may well be right but to this bear of litle brain it makes no sense at all.

My logic would be that if you said that the maximum speed that you could travel was say 55mph then that tells it that all road categories to which it would have applied a lower speed - e.g B roads - are OK but really fast roads - e.g Motorways - are of no value at all since they are no faster than A roads. Hence my earlier view that this would have precisely the opposite effect to that which you wanted.

However, ours is not to reason why...

.. but I may well take this to the main TT forum.

Roy
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alix776
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roy have a look at the tour in planning preferances or the manual its listed there

makes perfect sense to me anyway
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RoyC
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked in TOUR and it reads

'use 'limited speed' if your vehicle cannot go above a certain speed ( below 65km/h, motorways will be avoided).

This , I think supports my position in my last mail - ie it avoids motorways thus making more use of A roads instead of motorways. While I can see that this might be of benefit to a L driver - who must not use Motorways it is exactly the opposite of what I would have expected you to need in your monstr truck - ie I would expect you to prefer Motorways. I can also see how , if you are driving a very slow steam engine you might also want to avoid Motorways just avoid the hassle but I still find it odd.

Then I look at the 'Planning Prefereces and what do I find 'Only Avoiding Motorways' - what the hell does that mean? and in what way is it different to setting the limited speed at 65k/h? Very strange logic at work here.

Roy
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alix776
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no it doesnt avoid motorway it actually uses motorway and more a road as these as these are faster for you

65 kmh is 40 mphish at this speed motorway are avoided dont go offthe blurrb try it out in a 44ton truck using the limited speed at 54mph it gived me usually the way id normally go
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RoyC
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not arguing with your experience - I accept what you say it does. It is just that for me the wording is not logical and doesn't make any sense - however, as I said, I will take ths to the main TT forum where those 'in the know' might be able to explain to me.

Roy
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Dohnut
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Alix,

I have tt3 at the moment and was thinking about upgrading to tt5, however I too was concerned about the ability to change speeds for truck driving use. I at present use the speeds you advised in a previous post for all road speeds.

Now as I understand it tt5 just allows you to change the top speed only, as you seem to be saying to 54 mph.

I thought the whole point of changing the speeds was to change all road types to a speed that was compatiable with a truck, ie: 54 for motorways, 50 dual carriageways, 40 single carriageways, and so on.

I find and I am sure so do you, that at these speeds the eta at the start of the journey is usually within 2 or 3 minutes of the actual time of arrival. A big plus point when working out whether one can get to the delivery point before the need for a break or not, not to mention the phone call from the depot asking "are you nearly there yet"

Yes I know that just because tt says go this way or that, it is up to you the driver to make the final decision, however its other uses are to check whether I have enough distance to overtake the slow moving truck before the next turn off point on the motorway, and as I say my eta. Which with tt3 is a big plus point, if this has been ommitted from tt5 then it would seem that my decision to hold off from upgrading is well founded.

Or have I completely missed the point.
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alix776
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with limited speed tt5 usually picks the route tt3 would do usually i just have quick look at the route before i leave the eta under tt5 is usually around 2-3minutes out as with tt3 and the big help is full postcodes and updated maps built in poi warner etc it depends how important the postcode option is on containers its invaluble and ha got to places not on named roads time and time again the look and feel is different and there a little learning curve once you get using it though youll find it better than tt3 it just works a little differently to what your used to
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jaypeter
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:53 pm    Post subject: lorry speeds and other TT faults Reply with quote

RoyC seems to be right, in my experience.
Losing the ability to re-set road speeds for Lorries/Caravans/trailers is a huge drawback with TT5. (among many others!)

Yes you can set one maximum speed, but this is not the same thing.
If you tell TT5 you never want to exceed 50 MPH for instance, it WILL, given the choice, send you on A roads, thinking this is what you'd prefer, all else "being equal".
This of course is not what RoyC and the rest of us want. We want to choose our own roads, but be given a realistic ETA, not one that assumes we can always go 69 in our lorries/cadavans etc etc.

Why the devil would TT have removed this (and so many other) features?
For postcodes and the M6 toll road? Not worth it.

In TT3 I could avoid the smallest roads coming up as a choice (in my lorry) by setting their speed to 10 MPH! I know it's a bodge but it worked fantastic, trust me I did 24 000 up and down the country with TT3 riding shotgun....

The last 10 days TT5 has

1)lost me several times near the Town and Country show at Stoneleigh, jumping me into farmers fields and "re-calculating" several times. I have worked this area problem free with TT3 many times.
2)sent me from Wigan to Chorley through a GOLF COURSE. Yes, in my lorry. Try it. TT3 never picked this route as fastest.
3) caused me to pull out of an industrial park in the wrong direction because its "improved map scrolling" results it a mad spinning and searching at low speeds.



The list actually goes on and on. It's actually a whole new program and is not as enjoyable to use as TT3. It even looks "cheaper" with the ETA, SPEED and TIME digits hard to read. It "dims" when my PDA screen is touched and is harder to see in sunlight and reduces battery life by half...test it yourself!

I have sent an email, for what it's worth, to TT with my concerns.
Better to light a small candle than curse the darkness, eh RoyC?

cheers
jp
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RoyC
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaypeter - you don't know how pleased I was to read your mail - I was beginning to feel that it was only me!!

I reckon they have screwed up big time BUT - and I was reminded quite correctly that TT is a PERSONAL NAVIGATOR but I find it difficult to understand by what thought process they imagined that removing features which are key to a particular vehicle type would be in any way considered an upgrade. I am also particularly agrieved when TT is reviewed in a RV magazine - a move which must have been either instigated or at worst actively siupported by TT. If it really is only intended for cars then why promote it to that market.

I have tried 'discussing' this with TT support but I think I my mail must be automatically translated into Swahili because they clearly don't read it before replying with a response which bears no relationship to my question. I hope you have better luck.

I must say I wish I hadn't updated from TT3 but I don't really know how easy it would be to go back - TT tell me it isn't possible.

If I could find a better product I would swap - if anyone knows of one then please let us all know - don't keep it to yourself - one day you might be playing on the golf course that Jaypeter goes across in his truck!!


Roy
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