Workarounds for CoPilot's problems.

[dpdurst]

A product that works is only a matter of opinion correct? My opinion (and we all have them) is for me the product works fine for routing for what I use it for, however for others it does not and I respect that. But to beat the product up in a forum that has no control of the product getting fixed gets nothing accomplished. As for the review, again that review was from one person each one will be different based on that user.

So in the end, no one is going to have the exact same opinion of a product, nor will a review be exact from each user.

With that said, forums are for users to discuss a product, ask for help, answer questions etc. But to constantly bash a product in a forum that has no control of that product is a waste of time in my mind.

[PONDEROUS]

I would respectfully beg to differ on that, dpdurst.

Where factual correctness is black and white, then it is not a matter of opinion.

A review, and the statements subsequently made, need to be factually correct, accurate and not misleading. Furthermore, when they are not correct and, therefore, users begin raising queries, there need to be straightforward, accurate and helpful responses. If the reviewer has missed something or has not done enough with the product to pick up the problems, then he or she needs to issue appropriate clarifying statements.

Otherwise, the volume of material on the forum will grow unnecessarily, and it will become difficult for users to see where the information that they need can be found.

If these principles are followed, then there will be no need to challenge what is said.

There has been no beating-up of this forum; only attempts to get things straight.

[GrimBeard]

[dpdurst]

Hmm with all due respect I have to disagree with you Mr. Ponderous! It would seem that the review was based on this user's experiance with the product and as such was written on their experiance. How can a review when done based on the usage of that product by that person be wrong when that is what they experiance?

What your basically saying is that even though they did a review based on the product at hand and how that product worked for them they are wrong since you have a different outcome of that same product? I find that the product review and certain things they did write about is how my product does work.

There will always be different sides to all stories, reviews are reviews and only based ON THAT persons experiance, if you or others expect them to have the same conclusions as you, or the product to work exactly the same based on how you or myself or others use it then that is a pretty narrow pair of blinders you or myself or other wear!

I will agree I find some things wrong with the product, sure I can do a route based on quickest and shortest and there is very little difference in the outcome of either of them, but based on reviewing the quickest route and then If I think it looks wrong and doing a route on the shortest then comparing and picking the better of the two I can make my own judgement of the route to use. Again this is how I use the product, and in the states it does work fine for me and gives little problems that I have found on routing. I have no clue on the product and how it works on the other side of the ocean, but to beat up a product as such and make such remarks that it does not work as advertised I have to disagree, it does from my standpoint and maybe the issue should be taken up with the UK side of the product only instead of globally?

[PONDEROUS]

dpdurst

I could almost accept what you say if it were just the review, although it would have been better couched in far less certain terms.

What happened afterward was very different, I am afraid. The reviewer did use your argument; i.e. that he could only work from his experience. However, before and since, and long after it was tenable, he, among other things, effectively dismissed the routing problems as non-existent. He did so in the face of evidence to the contrary that he could have checked - please see thread entitled COPILOT UK ROUTING. He also erroneously claimed that "tweaking" would eliminate the routing problems (which did not exist?) and compounded the problem when queried about it - please see threads entitled COPILOT UK ROUTING and Sticky: Copilot 5 ETA - Tweaking Road Speeds.

This is a global forum and it is unavoidable that it will be seen globally. I stand by my observations regarding Copilot's performance, which I have described in some detail on both the threads mentioned - and on others. Copilot does not work properly in the UK, and that applies in so many respects as to make this a seriously flawed product. They say the same is true in Australia. If it is different in the USA, or your experience is different, then by all means spread the word: it's your privilege. Having said so, I don't know to what extent you have tested it, but I am entirely confident about my own tests, in the UK, and the conclusions that I have posted on these forums.

At the risk of repeating myself, I would ask anyone to make thorough tests before they do post their observations as there is a real danger that the message will be watered down where fixes are needed. When those fixes emerge, there will be no need for any of these debates. I for one am trying hard to help ALK achieve that.

[GrimBeard]

Well, I'd rather believe the guy who's stood in front of an aeroplane when it comes to GPS, rather than the guy who's avatar is a small red cross.

GB

[dpdurst]

[PONDEROUS]

Thank you, dpdurst, for your observations. You’re right. It will never end if the same old arguments keep re-surfacing. In fact, from now on, I am going to try simply to refer to previous posts if and when I have to address a recurring issue.

It does concern me that you should perceive my contributions as somehow unjust despite my efforts to be fair. Hopefully, the following statements will help.

I regard Copilot as having great potential. In fact, if its faults and deficiencies are resolved and seven-digit postcoding is added, then I believe that Copilot will be the best of its genre and that it will deserve the No. 1 position in the market place.

Similarly, this forum is potentially a great asset. I have no doubt that once it has implemented effective training and a satisfactory code of practice for forum team members (which it may now have done?), its reputation will deservedly grow.

[Skippy]

[PONDEROUS]

I agree with Skippy. In fact, I shall in due course be making sure that I do get the refund, as far as that is practicable, if ALK do not fix this product and make sure that I get my copy made good free of charge.

Actually, I would prefer having a working Copilot to receiving a refund as the potential is so great for this product. However, the odds in favour of that potential ever being realised given the evidence on this forum of ALK's, rather than the product's, performance, appear very slim.

Nevertheless, given the will, ALK, YOU CAN DO IT! Is the will there? If so, you in ALK who have it must make your move - now.

It is not very many weeks to September, so I will hang on until then. By then, no doubt the early issues in TomTom 5 will be on their way to being resolved, so it will be a good time for a move if necessary.

[nikpro]

think that it was mentioned earlier that CoPilot is at the budget end of the GPS spectrum; allied to that, most people use them on a PPC which also does countless other things!

For £130 for the software I think the product is good and does what it says, no it's not perfect but I wouldn't expect to buy a budget anything else and expect perfection. I think you expect to much from the product!

As far as the review is concerned it is 'spot on' from what I am now experiencing - yes in the past I had problems but these have now been solved thanks to comments posted on this forum - that Dave Burrows (the man you have a dig at all the time) set up.

I also work in a proffesion where people are quick to criticise yet fail to see all the good points!

[Bazzer]

I think the frustration that many of us have is that the product CLEARLY does not do what it claims on the box.

If it said that it is a budget product and may somehow get you to your destination but not by the most effective route, and that it may miss turn announcements or may send you in the wrong direction, then we would all know what to expect.

But this is not the case ! The product is marketed as an all-singing all-dancing application.

Only last week, I was driving south on A490 between Welshpool and Churchstoke. It completely failed to announce first a left turn, then a right turn.

"Dynamic Route Guidance: Provides spoken, turn-by-turn directions to any address nationwide" is one of the claimed core features.

Someone, please justify this claim to me !

Baz

[PONDEROUS]

That is dead right, Bazzer, but the debate never moves forward because the apologists disregard the evidence and keep issuing blanket statements suggesting that there is little or nothing wrong, or that it is all a matter of opinion.

That is despite the existence of a Planning Mode (a plus for Copilot, for sure), on both desktop PC and pocket PC, that allows the apologists (and ALK, and Dave Burrows), to see, in the comfort of their homes, whether what we say is true.

I won't address the old chestnut about the price of Copilot as several other users have dismissed it before. What I will raise is Nikpro's assertion that selling a defective product can be excused because the pocket PC is a multi-purpose device. It is no excuse whatsoever, as Bazzer succincty and clearly says.

Moreover, for some of us, cost had nothing to do with our choice of a pocket PC over dedicated navigator console. I could not use a navigator console as I need something that will slip in my top pocket and navigate whether I am driving or walking. I want to be able to switch to a spreadsheet or other document. Soon, I shall be adding programmes for collecting survey information, and these may use the GPS to certify where I was at a certain time. That is why Copilot was so attractive - and why it has become such a disappointment

Thankfully, because the pocket PC is indeed capable of multi-tasking, I can use Pocket Streets or the new Geopostcode utility in the background. Otherwise, I would have had to dump Copilot long before now.

Incidentally, I cannot imagine why Copilot's sister products on dedicated consoles should produce better routes. If they did, then surely it would have been a matter of integrating the relevant parts of the programme into the pocket PC version - again, long before now.

[nikpro]

YAWN,YAWN..................... if it's that bad use a bloody map!!...... then you won't miss a turn will you????

Microsft don't advertise that their product has bugs, may crash occasionally....will someone ban PONDEROUS the pr**k from the forum as he doesn't say anything usefull whatsoever and let him go to his little world of perfection where his products last a lifetime, take him to the most inaccesable places in the world by the most direct route (probably up his own a**se hole) and book tickets for planes for him.

Please don't reply you are borring the T*TTS of me!!

[PONDEROUS]

Whoever the present head of this forum is, I respectfully suggest that it is time for you to exercise some control over nikpro's contributions to this thread. The inaccuracy of he or she writes is one thing, but sheer philistine behaviour and thuggery is another.

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