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Having only had CPL5 for a few weeks now I have quickly discovered that it's not the product I thought that this was. (see my 'First Impressions' thread. I too bought it on the strength of the review on this site.
Even though this was my first in-car GPS, I quickly discovered that the product appeared to be seriously flawed and questioned the 'glowing review' by Dave. I sent Dave a PM to this effect but did not receive any reply.
It doesn't take a genious to see that there are many people out there who are extremely dissatisfied with CPL5, but as PONDEROUS says, there isn't even the slightest acknowledement from either this site or from ALK that any sort of problem exists.
Why this is, I do not know. Conspiracy theories anyone ?
Joined: 03/05/2003 14:45:49 Posts: 3999 Location: leyland lancs ENGLAND
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject:
guys could i put one point in here ponderous i know and understand what you saying but if alk dont want to acknowledge a problem there is nothing we can do about it we a FREE and idependent rescoure and all of the team and mods otu side the site in the real world. i havent treid to using the speed tweak in my copilot software but after all is said it will get you to you destination if you know a back road or better then take it and turn the nav off copilot 5 is a good peice of software it that it has many features no other software has ie tracking and messaging althought i will admit it does have some flaws and limitations like any other software.
if your not happy with the software the best thing to do wopuld be to take it up with the reseller you got it from or keep talking to allk eityher by email or phone _________________ currently using aponia truck navigation on windows phone. Good bye IOS don't let the door hit you on the way out .
Oh the joys of being a courier.
device Lumia 950 xl
The problem is that the resellers hide behind their terms and conditions of trading and will not refund or replace software/dvd's/cd's once they have been opened.
ALK will not give you a refund as they would have to admit that the product they are marketing is not fit for the intended purpose - and do you know of any company that would openly admit that one of their major products is c**p.
What I and others are saying on this forum is that as end-users, we are relying on independent and informed reviews before parting with our cash, and this site provides such reviews. We have to trust the expertise of the reviewers to give accurate and informed views.
In this case, given all of the documented problems, it is surprising in the extreme that none of these flaws were discovered by reviwers who must be very experienced with GPS systems.
Unfortunately, since the reseller & ALK will not give refunds, we as consumers feel that we have been well and truly shafted for approximately £130 by being convinced to buy CPL5.
So, is it any wonder that our anger is vented via this forum ?
Joined: 02/11/2002 22:41:59 Posts: 11878 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject:
I would be interested to know if this is UK specific or if there are US users that feel the same. Eventually it may be down to UK map issues, and we all know that maps are never perfect. So, anyone in the US who has seen the same level of miscalculations?
From a functionality point of view CP5 is a solid application with some special features (eg route optimization) that are not present in any other program. Particularly for delivery drivers there's currently few alternatives. _________________ Lutz
Joined: Aug 16, 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:48 pm Post subject:
Now see, I don't have an issue with doing that. The benefit of planning and saving a trip on the PC is far superior a function than others that can only do it on the PDA. I will accept the problem of shortest/fastest as being a fairly rubbish algorithm but in my view its just very poor programing. Its never caused me any problems as I tend to use the prog with a large dose of "salt". Especially in areas that I have a good or even vague idea of where I am. Having said that I have trusted it to take me to unknown areas, to me, like Trafford Park or the centre of Sheffield which it has done, to the door, without any problems. or at least if there were I didn't know the local area enough to know that. Ignorance is bliss sometimes.
In those cases and travelling from Basingstoke I ignore any off route choices until I am well on my way and into no mans land north of Coventry. I don't need to know my way up the M4/A34/M40 but I too also set a waypoint at the top of the A34 just to ensure the route is not too diverse. Is TT3 any better, dunno, no PC planning is a big ommision for me as is the bizarre and restrictive practice regarding registration. The real problem here as I and others have mentioned is ALK and their almost unbelievable silence. As a company their , apparent, couldn't care less attitude is criminal. Their support is shamful and would warrant a compliant under the trade descriptions act. I say that after never having a serious enough reason to contact them but just based on what I've read.
Beating up on Dave is not the way forward or really that fair. Although I completely understand the frustration. I think we all hoped that he has the ear of companies like ALK and they, being sensitive to consumer views (?) would listen. Its not his fault that ALK don't care. Its reasonable, in my view, that he reviews and comments as he finds. Alienating the likes of TT or ALK would serve no one. Its between a rock and a hardplace in that respect. But I do think that if the only way we can get some sort of representation to ALK then Dave because of his contacts and the amount of effort he and others here put into testing for these companies, unfortunatly, is bound to be in the firing line. For me I would just like to know if ALK read this stuff, comments are given to them by anyone here and what they say back? I can't belive that nothing has been passed on. Once again its the utter silence from them that is frustrating....and yet again I would point out that I use CP5 and am reasonably happy with it but I still want to hear what their plans are. _________________ TomTom 720
Nokia Lumia 800 with Nokia Maps, iPhone 4S with Apple Maps (sigh)
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:32 am Post subject:
topgazza wrote:
Ignorance is bliss sometimes.
I do agree with you somewhat. When it's the middle of the night, raining, you're tired and the wife and kids are screaming at you asking if we are there yet, any sort of guidance is a godsend. It doesn't matter if the route you take is a couple of miles longer.
But I get angry when I see CoPilot generate crazy routes like London to Dublin via Scotland or Southampton to Hastings via the M25. Why should I have to double check every route that CoPilot generates? My old Garmin unit generates reasonable routes without the need for constant checking and tweaking. I want a system that I can trust (especially in the above mentioned scenario), and you certainly can't trust CoPilot. I use it on the Smartphone which makes it difficult to double check the routes too.
topgazza wrote:
I too also set a waypoint at the top of the A34 just to ensure the route is not too diverse. Is TT3 any better, dunno, no PC planning is a big ommision for me
This is a work around, but I have never driven on the A34 so I wouldn't know where to put the waypoint and would end up taking the long route because of CoPilot's faulty routing. We shouldn't need to do workarounds like this - other sat nav systems don't have such problems.
topgazza wrote:
The real problem here as I and others have mentioned is ALK.. As a company their , apparent, couldn't care less attitude is criminal. Their support is shamful and would warrant a compliant under the trade descriptions act.
Well said.
topgazza wrote:
Beating up on Dave is not the way forward or really that fair. ... Its between a rock and a hardplace in that respect.
I brought CoPilot based on the review on this website. It wasn't until I had used it for 5 or 10 hours that the bugs became fully apparent. I honestly thought that the problems would be addressed fairly quickly but NOTHING has been done to fix the bugs. The retailer won't help (no refunds on software) and ALK won't help. This is the only place to vent my frustration. It's not a personal attack on anyone, I just want to see pressure put on ALK to fix the software that I paid good money for.
I think the PocketGPSWorld team should amend this review to note that after using the software long term, a number of problems have arisen and that these haven't been addressed by ALK. They should also note that 6 months on, there is still no traffic report integration either.
To leave the review as it stands seriously erodes the credibilty and impartiality of an otherwise excellent website. _________________ Gone fishing!
Joined: Mar 11, 2004 Posts: 1199 Location: Park Gate
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:51 am Post subject:
Skippy wrote:
But I get angry when I see CoPilot generate crazy routes like London to Dublin via Scotland or Southampton to Hastings via the M25. Why should I have to double check every route that CoPilot generates?
topgazza wrote:
I too also set a way-point at the top of the A34 just to ensure the route is not too diverse. Is TT3 any better, dunno, no PC planning is a big omission for me
Skippy wrote:
This is a work around, but I have never driven on the A34 so I wouldn't know where to put the way-point and would end up taking the long route because of CoPilot's faulty routing. We shouldn't need to do workarounds like this - other sat nav systems don't have such problems.
Using CP5 on the desk top PC plan a route from Fareham Hampshire to Birmingham. Then view the route its planned in green, it goes M27, M3, M25, M40. Travelling time 3 hours 7 minutes, distance 178.8 miles.Now look at the map and just north of winchester is the A34 going up from the M3 to the M40, zoom in the map where the A34 joins the M40 until you can see both carriage ways of the A34, just before the roundabout on the left hand carriage way right click and add as Stop. Go back to Trip Planner and you will see your way-point as the second entry Way-Point 1 : A34 Weston On The Green. Click on Edit Trip and then Run, your route is now via the A34 driving time 3 hours 6 minutes distance 146.4 miles. Driving time is the same but saves you 32 miles and at least a gallon of fuel. Interestingly if you do the return trip by selectig home from Birmingham on the PPC it will still route you back via the M25, M3, but if you come off the M40 onto the A34 it will re-calculate the route via the A34.
Doing the same trip in TomTom it picks the A34 route straight away. _________________ Graham.
TT Go720, App:9.510(1234792.1) OS:842337
GPS: V1.20, Boot: 5.5279, Home: V2.9.5.3093
Map: Europe V910.4892
Map: Europe_Truck V870.3421, Kingston 8GB SD
Nokia 925 Windows 8
I totally agree with Skippy that the review on this site SHOULD reflect the problems that many users are encountering, as people (like me) base their purchases on these reviews.
I sent a PM to Dave some time saying exactly the same thing but to date have received no response.
How many more people will read the review and think that they are buying an excellent product.
My purchase of CoPilot in preference to my original choice of TomTom was based entirely on the glowing review on this site which led me to believe that by spending £135 on CoPilot I would become the proud possessor of the "killer app" as far as GPS on a PDA was concerned.
After struggling with lock-ups and non-announced POIs I was only able to get CoPilot to work satisfactorily by upgrading to the "USA .48" version and switching from male synthesised speech to female wave files.
In fairness CPL now works OK and is far more stable. I'm left wondering whether the Mitac Mio 168 is not powerful enough to cope with the synthesised speech or whether there in an inherent shortcoming in the software.
Requests to ALK to supply updated UK v.48 software met with a refusal from a support person who gave the impression he was either the office tea boy manning the phones or a school kid on work experience. Needless to say, I don't have a warm feeling about ALK. _________________ Nokia E65 & TT Nav6
Gripp, when I bought my CPL5 (about 5 weeks ago), I complained strongly to the reseller who must have passed my complaint to ALK, as they actually phoned me.
I ended up sending my SD card and software CD's (v.30) to ALK who had them for 2.5 weeks. They actually returned v.48 "European" cd's, so these are obviously available. I would have thought to alleviate many of the complaints that they would have made these freely available as a download.
Like you, because of the review, I went against my original intention of buying TT3 and chose CPL5. Even after my first local trip, I was very disappointed. It's hardly any wonder that users vent their frustration on this forum.
Joined: Aug 16, 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:12 pm Post subject:
This is a good thread in that it comes down to two issues, no software that is. ALKs pathetic attitude and support and one later one which I agree should happen is an adjustment to the review to reflect the more consistent complaints about the software. These are based over a number of people with different kit and using different roads. All come up with the same issues. Treat them as live trials of the software and yes, the review should have an appendix rather than a change to Dave's original review which was and still is valid. Problem is with the many people that come here first for opinion will be put off CP5, but maybe that would kick them into action. _________________ TomTom 720
Nokia Lumia 800 with Nokia Maps, iPhone 4S with Apple Maps (sigh)
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject:
xda wrote:
Using CP5 on the desk top PC plan a route from Fareham Hampshire to Birmingham.
(snipped: basically, it routes via M25 rather than the A34)
Doing the same trip in TomTom it picks the A34 route straight away.
Garmin's Mapsource pics the A34 too. So does www.mappoint.com (all these applications use Navteq maps)
The crux of the Fareham Hampshire to Birmingham routing problem is that CoPilot sees that you can route between the M40 Junction 9 and the M3 Junction 9 via the M25 (100 miles and 1 hour 49 minutes). The CoPilot problem is that it assumes that the "Quickest" route is ALWAYS via a motorway if it is at all possible to get to the destination via the motorway. It doesn't even consider any alternative, non motorway routes.
Switching to "Shortest" route forces it to consider other non-motorway routes and it finds the route via the A34 dual carriageway which is both shorter and quicker (66 Miles and 1 hour 39 minutes) than the one given when you ask for "quickest".
This is not a road bias problem whereby motorways are marked as having a higher speed than major roads or else the ETA for the route via the A34 would be higher than the ETA for the motorway route. No amount of tweaking of road biases will fix this problem.
Gripp and Bazzer's comments about the versions is a disturbing example of ALK's poor support. So, the latest version on ALK's European website is .46, but tech support might give you .48 if you send them the CD's for a couple of weeks.
To add to the confusion, there is a .69 version on ALK's American website but it says that it's not suitable for use in Europe. What do the Americans do if they want to use their CoPilot in the UK then? _________________ Gone fishing!
"The following CoPilot Live │ Pocket PC 5 Update is for any version of the product purchased in Europe prior to version number 5.0.1.22. " _________________ Nokia E65 & TT Nav6
Joined: Mar 11, 2004 Posts: 1199 Location: Park Gate
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:37 am Post subject:
Skippy wrote:
The crux of the Fareham Hampshire to Birmingham routing problem is that CoPilot sees that you can route between the M40 Junction 9 and the M3 Junction 9 via the M25 (100 miles and 1 hour 49 minutes). The CoPilot problem is that it assumes that the "Quickest" route is ALWAYS via a motorway if it is at all possible to get to the destination via the motorway. It doesn't even consider any alternative, non motorway routes.
That was just given as an example as in the original post of yours you said "This is a work around, but I have never driven on the A34 so I wouldn't know where to put the way-point and would end up taking the long route because of CoPilot's faulty routing". Was trying to explain to you how to add a way-point should you have the need to in the future. _________________ Graham.
TT Go720, App:9.510(1234792.1) OS:842337
GPS: V1.20, Boot: 5.5279, Home: V2.9.5.3093
Map: Europe V910.4892
Map: Europe_Truck V870.3421, Kingston 8GB SD
Nokia 925 Windows 8
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