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TMC in the UK and Navigon non-support
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lostdave
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Joined: Jul 20, 2004
Posts: 10
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 11:36 am    Post subject: TMC in the UK and Navigon non-support Reply with quote

I recently (mid July) purchased Navigon MN4 + BT + TMC. Initially I received a TMC signal (the indicator went green) but after the 1st day the indicator only ever goes orange...even if I am outside my car. I can receive Classic FM clearly (I understand it is this station which broadcasts the TMC signals)

I have reported this to Navigon, who now tell me that their TMC is not compatible with TMC in the UK!

From all I can read, TMC is an international standard...so cannot understand how this can be the case.

Can anyone clarify for me if I am doing anything wrong here? (as an FYI I am near Guildford in the UK in case there is any geographic impact)

I have to say that Navigon have been very unhelpful...at best suggesting I return the whole unit to them for testing. As I go on holiday and need the unit in a week this is not very helpful!). They have even suggested that the emails I sent them should be printed out and sent by snail-mail to their support team leader (they will not/cannot give me this persons name and have no phone number for him/her)

I am also reluctant just to return the unit with no RMA number....as I need some contact and guarantee that it will be returned to me rather than sending it into a "black hole".

Has anyone else had any experience with TMC and/or Navigon support in this way?

thanks
- Dave
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Omertron
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Joined: Jun 26, 2004
Posts: 54
Location: Wirral, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave,

I've had MN4+TMC for a few weeks now and also have some problems keeping a connection to TMC alive. Sometimes it can be stable for ages, but for no apparent reason (that I can determine) it will loose signal.

Personally (and with a quick chat with another forum member - Tetly202) I belive it to be more a problem with the cheap arial that they provide for TMC.

Tetly202 has bought and fitted an arial splitter to piggyback his car arial and says that he no longer has problems. So I guess that would be your best solution.

hth

Stuart
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lostdave
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Joined: Jul 20, 2004
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:52 pm    Post subject: TMC in the UK and Navigon non-support Reply with quote

Stuart,

Thanks - I will try this and let you know.

- Dave
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dejongj
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Joined: 06/02/2003 23:17:38
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please also note that TMC in the UK is not a constant stream. i.e. if there is nothing to broadcast, no updates or new message than it won't happen. It is not the same as a GPS signal...Some other european countries, notably Holland, Belgium and Germany as much more active and at more frequencies...That is why there is always some signal comming through...There is only one provider in the UK (although I have noticed messages on other frequencies...).

I have no personal complains regarding the support from Navigon. But please bear in mind that you have bought something leading edge with no official support in the UK. This will change if you buy the new Kane package probably. This is also the reason why Navigon won't officially support TMC in the UK, no presence = no testing facilities...And they are too busy as they are so why should they in a small market like the UK...

I do not find it strange that they want to unit back for testing, why do you find it strange? It is annoying when you want to go on holiday, but that is hardly their problem is it?

Also what is your problem with the lack of an RMA number? If you want security regarding your equipment getting lost, send it in using international-sign-for via Royalmail. Still may get lost but at least you are insured to get a new one...
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dejongj
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Joined: 06/02/2003 23:17:38
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please also note that TMC in the UK is not a constant stream. i.e. if there is nothing to broadcast, no updates or new message than it won't happen. It is not the same as a GPS signal...Some other european countries, notably Holland, Belgium and Germany as much more active and at more frequencies...That is why there is always some signal comming through...There is only one provider in the UK (although I have noticed messages on other frequencies...).

I have no personal complains regarding the support from Navigon. But please bear in mind that you have bought something leading edge with no official support in the UK. This will change if you buy the new Kane package probably. This is also the reason why Navigon won't officially support TMC in the UK, no presence = no testing facilities...And they are too busy as they are so why should they in a small market like the UK...

I do not find it strange that they want to unit back for testing, why do you find it strange? It is annoying when you want to go on holiday, but that is hardly their problem is it?

Also what is your problem with the lack of an RMA number? If you want security regarding your equipment getting lost, send it in using international-sign-for via Royalmail. Still may get lost but at least you are insured to get a new one...
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lostdave
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Joined: Jul 20, 2004
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have left the unit plugged in for several hours and still get no signal.

Navigon's own website state support for TMC in the UK...look under Products->MN4->Info

I am not surprised that they want the unit to test. But as a customer that has spent 570euros and had the unit fail within 2 days of receiving it, I do not expect to have a repaired unit returned to me...this soon after failure should see it replaced with a new unit. That is all I requested.

My concern about returning the unit is simple; if I have no name that I can correspond with, proof of delivery is not much use. That was my major concern...no-one would accept ownership of the problem. Had they given me a name and email address (rather than an alias) I would feel much more comfortable. I do now (eventually) have a name and hope this progresses a bit more smoothly now...they believe it is the aerial and so are sending me a splitter cable.

I doubt it, but would like to be proved wrong!
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dejongj
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Joined: 06/02/2003 23:17:38
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with your assumption for a return unit...and guess what you may as well have gotten a new one, cheaper to process than repair one...However they take a big risk to send you a new one and you may never send in your faulty one. Also they need to send the faulty one to their supplier to get their refunds...This is one of the mail-order drawbacks...

Why is a name so important? A name has actually many drawbacks if you communicate with that person individually...That person goes of ill, you e-mails gets unanswered, that person leaves the companie and no-one else knows about it, that person goes on holiday and you are left for weeks without anyone following up....It is actually going to cause more difficulties that just using the normal support route...

Their website actually doesn't state support for TMC in the UK if you read it correctly. It just simply states that TMC is a free-to-air broadcast in the UK (amongst the other countries), that is not the same as supporting it. Technically correct but totally useless statement on its own as the UK TMC is actually encrypted altough broadcasted free-to-air...

Anyway I hope the external arial works for you, personally I would have just followed their support process and send it in...
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Cerberus
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Joined: Jul 26, 2004
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Location: Lytham St. Annes

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omertron wrote:


Personally (and with a quick chat with another forum member - Tetly202) I belive it to be more a problem with the cheap arial that they provide for TMC.

Tetly202 has bought and fitted an arial splitter to piggyback his car arial and says that he no longer has problems. So I guess that would be your best solution.



Do you know if the splitter Tetly202 has is the official Navigon one from thier site or one from else where.

I've had MN4+TMC (no BT) since last week and have the same problem of not getting any data. except for Saturday where on my way back from Darlington to Blackpool I decided to move the GPS to rear parcel shelf and within seconds I was getting data, but it then stoppped once I left the A66, so assume its down to reception quality/interference.
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Omertron
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Location: Wirral, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cerberus wrote:
Do you know if the splitter Tetly202 has is the official Navigon one from thier site or one from else where.

Yes, as far as I am aware it is.

Cerberus wrote:
I've had MN4+TMC (no BT) since last week and have the same problem of not getting any data. except for Saturday where on my way back from Darlington to Blackpool I decided to move the GPS to rear parcel shelf and within seconds I was getting data, but it then stoppped once I left the A66, so assume its down to reception quality/interference.

I daily commute from Wirral to Liverpool (via the tunnel ... not great for the GPS reception!) and usually get some sort of data about 15 mins into the 30 min journey. Yes, I know, sad to use the sat nav for a journey I do every day Embarassed , but I live in hope that one day TMC will route me around a major incident Wink

Other than that I drive to and from Woking, Surrey (circa 230 miles) through 3-4 different classic FM regions and find that the quality of the reception does vary a great deal with the inbuilt arial, so I would be interested in any other reviews of the arial splitter before I decide to get one.

Stuart
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tetley202
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys

just to confirm it was the TMC cable from the Navigon shop and it took under a week to arrive cost circa 30 and effectively splits the sig from the car aerial. Is well built and definately worth the dosh.

IT is NOT just a 3 way physical splitter like you get for domestic TV coax, and instead contains some passive electronics according to the description on the navigon site.

I wish I had bought the cable from the start as although I could get a TMC sig from the supplied FM wire aerial I found I was losing the sig on some trips and that was after spending hours trying to find an optimum position in the mondeo estate.

Since fitting the cable the TMC has been rock solid. When I power up I keep it on automatic, let it find classic fm on 100.1 then click the tick on the bottom right hand side of the screen.

Have you ever clicked the TMC triangle to see whether it is searching or locked onto classic FM.

I have also left it on overnight to see what happens and again it stays solid.

The customer support folk who answer the phone at Navigon do not have email access, and they advised me when I was chasing the dedicated PDA cable that aprox 2.5k emails are being received a day enquiring about the product which has completely overwhelmeed them.

Hope that helps
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tetley202
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can also buy it from the manufactuer GNS where it is listed as
GNS Y-Antenna splitter universal

Mine from Navigon still had the trafficscout sticker on from GNS
at http://www.gns-gmbh.com/en/

just enter GNS Y in the quick find box, it is shown as the 6th item at 29.90 Euros

cheers Martin
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Omertron
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tetley202 wrote:
just enter GNS Y in the quick find box, it is shown as the 6th item at 29.90 Euros

Here's a direct link:
http://www.gns-gmbh.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=67
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lostdave
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the feedback.

When the indicator is orange it is searching...but never finding any signal to lock on to.

I will try the Y-cable and see if that helps.
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Tomcat
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Joined: Jul 25, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

I also got my MN|4 (modular mouse + TMC but noBT) recently and I still use the small FM aerial which came with the package. Apart from yesterday, when the software didn't want to recognice the TMC module at all (which I could only fix by re-installing the software Crying or Very sad ), TMC reception was quite good Smile . I usually get a green symbol about 5-10 minutes into the jorney. It seems to loose the signal every 15-20 minutes (orange) but comes back usually after 2 minutes.
I leave it on automatic scanning, which might explain the signal loss. The software sems to scan to check if there is a stronger signal (from another TMC radio station) available. On the continent, where there are more than just one radio station broadcasting TMC this makes sense. because the stations usually broadcast traffic messages only for their local area. In the UK, Classic FM broadcasts messages for the whole country. Maybe try to lock the station, once it found Classic FM. I am not sure whether it locks just that one frequency or if it locks the station name... Question

I do think about getting the Y-adapter at a later stage anyway, just to get rid of the FM cable which I had to attach along the A-cloumn in from of the passenger seat. Doesn't bother me, but I just looks a bit "temporary".

Tip: For those of you, who can read German, have a look in
www.pocketnavigation.de
Lots of tips around manipulating the ini files, there is also a free program available to modify them on the PPC.

Hope I could help a bit

Tom
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Omertron
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Posts: 54
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomcat wrote:
Apart from yesterday, when the software didn't want to recognice the TMC module at all (which I could only fix by re-installing the software Crying or Very sad )

I leave my GPS receiver in the car hidden behind the tax disk on the left hand side and when I leave the car just unplug the cigarette lighter (keeping the GPS on) and leave it like that Rolling Eyes

Now, sometimes when I get back in and connect the PDA back up, and insert the plug into the lighter socket, MN4 does not want to recognise the TMC module (The indicator is red) and this can usually be fixed by turning the GPS off with its own switch and/or restarting the PPC and MN4.

Also, another tip... DO NOT reset the PPC while MN4 is running as it tends to corrupt some of the files, causing MN4 to revert to german 8O requiring a new install

Stuart
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