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UK Drivers to be charged by the mile
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Are you prepared to pay per mile for driving your car?
Yes, It is the fair way to charge.
13%
 13%  [ 11 ]
No, We need better roads
44%
 44%  [ 35 ]
No, We need better public transport
16%
 16%  [ 13 ]
No, Other
11%
 11%  [ 9 ]
Maybe, I need convincing
13%
 13%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 79

Author Message
KindredSpirit
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Joined: Dec 09, 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happens to those towns where local shops have closed because a superstore has been built on outskirts of town and how do we buy from places like IKEA? At present our bus company charges around £1.60 for a 5/6 stop ride (about 4 minutes). What also happens if you have to take work to and from work (eg Teachers can carry upto 60lbs of work home each day!!......and before anyone chips in about the holidays, a lot of them work during the holidays and unpaid overtime at night, often until 10pm) We need better public transport.
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Pukster
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Joined: Dec 12, 2004
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we need to do to solve the impending transport crisis, is redress the balance between the revenue collected from the motorist, and the public expenditure of that money on other non-transport services such as the NHS, welfare state, assylum hand-outs etc. etc. not to mention the huge government pension scheme payouts each month to retired civil servants.

We already pay more than we need to for our transport networks, but successive governments have diverted this money rather than investing in the infrastructure. We are talking about many Billions of pounds here.

They also provided the mobile dole wagons to take the giro handout to 'swampy' and his tree hugging environmentalist friends who move from road building project to the next one digging their little tunnels and building tree houses / bivouacs and the like (Salisbury and Newbury bypass protests ring any bells?)

I don't think we need to worry about GPS based charging systems for road use just yet.
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DaveL
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Joined: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Lincoln, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't object 'as much' if the govenment charged ALL road users before increasing the burden on existing ones.

Yes, I'm talking about the cyclists. Local councils have spent millions nationally on cycle paths for the almost non-existant cyclist. They contribute nothing but get provided with special lanes. They have no insurance so if one causes you damage or injury.... tough! They don't suffer any consequences for traffic offences.

The amount of times a cyclist scrubs down the side of cars is unreal and they don't give a damn, just pretend it didn't happen and dissappear down the road, bypassing traffic lights if they are at red by mounting the pavement and taking a shortcut.

Lets have them taxed to hell first. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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DavidW
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Joined: 17/05/2003 02:26:21
Posts: 3747
Location: Bedfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One bit of charging has gone - the Skye Bridge tolls are no more! See this article on BBC News Online.



David
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barryd
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Joined: Mar 27, 2004
Posts: 285
Location: Cheshire, England

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of encouraging you to write further, DaveL, can I just point out that every time I ride my bike on the road I put my own life at considerable risk from the ignorant minority of drivers intent on squeezing past immediately without even lowering their speed or moving out a bit. Perhaps that's why cyclists seem "non-existent" where you drive - those of us that are left have learned to use cycle paths and bridleways wherever possible in order to improve our chances of survival.
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Barry Davies
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DaveL
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Joined: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Lincoln, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
At the risk of encouraging you to write further, DaveL
Confused

Hi barry d,
I guess that your opening line was to have your say but discourage a response. Typical. 8O

You must be in politics, I didn't say "seem non-existant" but "almost non-existant" in a context clearly relating the provision of specific lanes for which you contribute nothing for. Not Worthy

Quote:
those of us that are left have learned to use cycle paths and bridleways wherever possible in order to improve our chances of survival.


I take it from your response that you don't think you should cntribute anything at all for the provision and maintenance of cycle lanes. Clap


Merry Xmas
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Privateer
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Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20
Posts: 4903
Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveL wrote:
Ö bypassing traffic lights if they are at red by mounting the pavement and taking a shortcut.

Dave, you have some well-behaved cyclists in your area. The ones in my area tend to completely ignore traffic lights and just ride straight through them. Confident in the knowledge that should any unsuspecting car driver that comes the other way (over a green light) and hit them, and then itís automatically the car driverís fault.

The local council has recently spent a small fortune on building a very nice safe cycle path right alongside a road near my local village, ripping up a hedge in the process but thatís another story. The cycle path is a useful and welcome addition as the road twists and turns, as it is unlit. However we still get cyclists that forsake the cycle path and use the road instead. Needless so say those cyclists that still use the road instead of the cycle path donít have any lights or reflectors and wear very dark clothing.

I believe that all road users (cyclists, horse riders, drivers, etc) should have insurance, a means of identification, and a certificate gained from an official test that the holder is qualified to operate their means of transport on a public highway.

Regards,
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Last edited by Privateer on Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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barryd
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Joined: Mar 27, 2004
Posts: 285
Location: Cheshire, England

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, it is the ranting tone and factual inaccuracies in your posts that get my back up. For me, the relative rarity of this style of post on this site is one of its great strengths.
For example, you start by saying "Yes, I'm talking about the cyclists." This immediately lumps them all together and implies that all of "them" are equally bad. I resent this sort of mindless generalisation. I agree that we all see examples of bad cyclists endangering drivers' wing mirrors; perhaps you might try to accept my point that we all also see examples of impatient drivers needlessly endangering cyclists' lives? I consider the latter rather more serious.
Or on the "factual" side, how can you even suggest that "They" (generalising again) "contribute nothing" towards local council costs in providing cycle paths - a point you labour further in your second post? Where do local councils get much of their funding from, if not the local, income and road taxes that I pay along with most other people? Maybe some adult cyclists can survive without a car and so avoid paying road tax, but they must be a small minority, and I for one believe that the benefits of their approach, not least in reducing pollution and danger on and around all roads, far more than outweighs the lack of income from their not paying road tax.
I could go on for pages, but doubtless most or all readers will prefer it if I don't. And if I did, I'd then have to reply to myself telling me I'm an old windbag.
So as it's Christmas, I will just send the season's best wishes to one and all, regardless of what you sit on or in to get yourself about. By all means respond again, Dave - surely you can see that my first post's opening line said that I knew you would - but from me that's my lot on this subject. Apart from to add that accusing me of being in politics was your most hurtful comment by far, and thankfully a wholly inaccurate one.
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DavidW
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say that some of the most dangerous road use I saw recently was from someone using a mobility scooter - and I write as someone who uses a Class 2 mobility vehicle (in my case, an electric wheelchair).

These machines require no driving test, no insurance, no registration (they're exempt by law) and are freely available.

There are a handful of restrictions on the fastest, Class 3 vehicles - but they're minimal. Basically, they have to have lights and a horn, travel at no more than 8mph, and have a speed limiter which, when engaged, limits them to no more than 4mph. It is illegal to use a Class 3 vehicle on the pavement without the speed limiter engaged, and there's also a minimum age to use a Class 3 vehicle (I think it's 16). With lights and a horn, a Class 3 power chair can look a little daft - and there aren't many of them anyway. Most Class 3 vehicles are scooters rather than wheelchairs.

My power chair, like most power chairs, is Class 2. With a 4mph limit, these have no age restriction, and no requirement for lights and a horn - at times I would actually be quite glad of lights and a horn though I wouldn't use my indicators! Unfortunately the manufacturer doesn't produce a lighting kit and my control system isn't capable of taking a lighting module.


My power chair is NHS issue; amongst the requirements to get it, I had to pass a difficult control test having never used a power chair before in my life. This involved going up and down ramps, reversing round corners and reverse parking in the car park (I kid you not!). There would normally have been enquiries into my fitness to control one of these chairs safely (freedom from seizures, adequate eyesight etc.), but my full driving licence was accepted in lieu of this.

I carry £1 million of third party insurance on the chair voluntarily; the NHS in my area makes you sign a disclaimer that, amongst other things, recommends strongly that you are insured.

None of this is a requirement for a privately owned chair or scooter - you can go into a shop and buy one.


Two days ago I was driving down the High Street in town. Coming the other way, atop a red Class 3 scooter, was an elderly gent - in the road, with a huge queue of traffic behind him. The pavement there isn't brilliant, but it's usable for a scooter.

In my opinion, he really should have been on the pavement. 8mph is, in my opinion, unacceptable on road unless it is totally unavoidable. He wasn't that visible (it wasn't dark, but why didn't he put his lights on anyway), and holding up traffic on an A road isn't that sensible; he must have been encouraging dangerous overtaking. He wasn't even well over to the kerb so that he could have been overtaken more easily.


I only travel in the road in my chair for short distances when there's no alternative - and I try to time the on road section to be in sympathy with the traffic.



David
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DaveL
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Joined: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Lincoln, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Barry,

I wouldn't have said my post was made with a ranting tone and not really with inaccuracy. However, we are all entiltled to voice opinion, and I appreciate you have voiced yours.
Through this board these opinions are being expressed as intended, even though a little of topic.

Our viewpoints and opinions develop over time and are nurtured by our experiences. My opinion on this subject certainly has. Only a couple of weeks ago an adult cyclist in the centre of the lane in front of me was creating a huge tailback of traffic, even though there was a cycle lane along side. As we stopped at the traffic lights I asked the cyclist, quite politely, if he would use the cycle lane so we could pass. His reply was "I don't need that, I'm not a child".

We find ourselves in a time where the powers that be are desperate to generate revenue any which way. There is ever increasing burdens on the motorist, as I am sure you will agree. The Environment is used almost by default, as the reson for this, however, money for the coffers is almost certainly the underlying factor.

I am not suggesting that cyclists are taxed to the hilt for using the road but I am sure as anything suggesting they should contribute.


I appreciate that you too contribute by way of road tax for your own car. I am fortunate enough to have 2 cars (for legitimate reasons) an a motorcycle. Each is seperately insured and taxed, though I can only drive one of them at any one time, nuff said.

I would like to thank you, along with all you other guys, in making this thread as enjoyable to participate in many others on this board to which we all have a common interest.

On the above note and to the Moderators, may I request that you consider creating an 'Off-Topic' section in the Forum Index. I think this would provide an interesting area for a 'Rant' (there you go barry, you were right :D ) and/or debate, for all of us 'different' individuals with a common interest...GPS, without having leave to do it elsewhere.

Thanks again guys, see you in another thread.

Merry Xmas
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