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UK Drivers to be charged by the mile
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Are you prepared to pay per mile for driving your car?
Yes, It is the fair way to charge.
13%
 13%  [ 11 ]
No, We need better roads
44%
 44%  [ 35 ]
No, We need better public transport
16%
 16%  [ 13 ]
No, Other
11%
 11%  [ 9 ]
Maybe, I need convincing
13%
 13%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 79

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xrchris
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Joined: Jun 26, 2004
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nej wrote:

6 - Civil liberties. This is possibly the REAL reason for doing it (tracking all and sundry) but the human rights groups will be up in arms.


I also believe that this is the real reason for this system.

They way they are going at the minute our present government will not be happy until everyone of us is 'chipped' with a tracking device. Question
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nej
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Joined: Jun 16, 2004
Posts: 454
Location: London, Ingerlund

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'd like to know is how all the storage and data transmission is going to happen... think about it. Say each driver does, on average, an hour a day. Many many people do more, some do less. To accurately charge you'd need a position at least every minute. So that's, on average, 60 positions per day. Assume that there are 10 million cars on the road on each day and that's 600 million positions per day. Each position would be a minimum of 50 bytes (probably more once database overhead etc is taken into account). Work that out per day and it's about 30GB of data per day which is almost a terabyte every month.
If you worked on 100 bytes then it'd be double that - two terabytes per month... (these are kind of rough and rounded up figures, by the way!)
Each of those positions would need to be then worked to find the roads the vehicle was on and at what time and so on. The processing power to do all this will be absolutely immense. If they pulled it off it'd probably be the most powerful computer in the world!
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xrchris
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Joined: Jun 26, 2004
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well they already do this type of data storage/processing by going through every email/internet communication and telecommunications screening every day at GCHQ.

Cant be much different to that can it??
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nej
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah - touché :D
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RobStevens
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Joined: Jul 10, 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Bruton, Somerset

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I live in a rural area and cover a lot of miles just getting to work along country roads - and I'm pretty concerned about this.

How would they measure "how congested" a road is? A country lane can become hopelessly "congested" by a single tractor or lorry. Rat-running is already a problem for rural roads that provide unofficial accesses or bypasses for nearby towns: a scheme that drives even more motorists off of "congested" A-roads onto completely inadequate back-lanes sounds like madness to me.
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nicknick
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Joined: 03/02/2003 17:18:53
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't need to check your location every minute, just at particular points. Usually where you change from one charging zone to another.

Then they also monitor your mileage via an on-board system, and just check now and then whether the on-board mileage between two points is accurate via the GPS (to make sure you aren't cheating)

They won't measure the 'live' congestion of the road, but will set up different charging zones based on known congestion
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trafcam
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Joined: 30/10/2002 11:57:49
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading an article on this in 'Computing' today, it says that "It has recognised that the existing US-based GPS technology is prone to inaccuracies, and is looking to the forthcoming European Galileo positioning technology as the mechanism for the scheme."
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Fuego
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Joined: 07/06/2003 16:45:14
Posts: 114
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one word for this PAYG idea. Bollox. Complete and utter Labour bollox. About the only thing this government has ever done right is to invade Iraq and they did that for the wrong reasons.

Actually, it won't be PAYG. It'll probably still be Pay As You DON'T Go because people, being people, will still use their cars just as much. They'll just increase their wage demands to match the increases in the cost of living and inflation will spiral out of control, amidst a rampant economic depression.

I have a much better idea. Remove the speed cameras, increase speed limits and introduce new minimum speed limits. Make the roads a dangerous place. When enough people kill themselves, the problem will be solved. Seriously, this is a better idea. And if you thought I was serious, you're going to love the next great idea this government cooks up, no doubt.

There are only two solutions. 1) Improve roads 2) Reduce the need for people to travel. Yes, it's back to basics, but it'll work.
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MikeB
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Joined: 20/08/2002 11:51:57
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Location: Essex, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did think you were totally serious until I read the last paragraph... :D
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paulcdb
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one thing i've not heard mentioned in all this road charging is what's going to happen to those who rely on our vehicles?

What about us people who are unable to use public transport because of disability? i get out of breath easily and suffer bad pain in legs/feet when walking so what am i supposed to do... stay in?

What about those in wheelchairs... are they supposed to struggle with shopping to the nearest bus station? And old people... ?

I could go into a long arguement about this, but i can see labour being voted in again next time... if that happens i'll finally realise this countries got no hope, it'll be time to sell my car and lock myself in because it's not like we'll be allowed to do anything anyway! 8O
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Skippy
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Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulcdb wrote:
What about those in wheelchairs... are they supposed to struggle with shopping to the nearest bus station? And old people... ?


People with disabilities already get a pretty generous deal, they don't have to pay the London Congestion Charge for example. I imagine that a similar scheme would be put in place if they ever implemented road charging.
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulcdb wrote:
Posts: 1


Oh, welcome to to the Forum by the way. Welcome
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dave2318
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Joined: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:41 pm    Post subject: Business! Reply with quote

One thing I have not seen mentioned here (possibly cause I could not read all the comments for fear of growing too old before finishing Smile) is what about people like my self. I am an on site engineer who uses his own car to get to his customers. What would happen if this tax was introduced? I would have to charge my customers much more simply so I could get to them! Either that or the government would have to give me the money back or not charge me for travel during work.

Also what about all the poor truck drivers, they have a hard enough time as it is trying not to charge too much cause of the extortionate cost of the fuel in this country!

Which brings me to my next comment, we already have a tax on people who do more miles that the rest, it is called a 75% rate of tax on fuel!
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geraint
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Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 194
Location: Dorset, UK.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that we're gradually going back to the toll road system of the 1800s. Have you heard of the Rebecca Riots of 1839-1843?
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bernieeccles
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Joined: Nov 11, 2004
Posts: 32
Location: Huddersfield

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you noticed how the powers that be,always plant these little "seeds" and then let them grow .We start off absolutely against their looney ideas and then through discussion we sort of come to accept their inevitability.

Just remember,these politician are elected to serve US.not just line their pockets and fill up their pension schemes at our expense.We never learn,do we.When an election is due,they promise anything to get elected,then once in power,they just do as they please,riding roughshod over the peasants.

We should collectively tell them to shove it,we don't want it,we pay enough tax already,and if they don't take notice we should bloody well let them feel our displeasure.

We have short memories.Remember fatty two jags' 10 year transport plan.Did he not say that if transport was not better in ten years then the government would have failed.Remember him also saying that no expense would be spared to make the railways safe after the rail crashes ?

All that was left to quietly drift into oblivion.It's about time these wan*ers were brought to book about their failures.

I could go on and on.Millenium Dome,3 Billion proposed cost for the Olympic games.3 billion proposed,probably double that when done.The Scottish parliament building fiasco.

And you silly vote them in.
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