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Hidden Mobile Cameras Warning
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RobBrady
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:11 pm    Post subject: Hidden Mobile Cameras Warning Reply with quote

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It has been reported by the Cheddar Valley Gazette that following a recent change in the law, police are now allowed to hide in wait with speed cameras.

Their story concerns a professional driver from Cheddar, Somerset who was caught by a hidden camera as he went from a 40mph to a 30mph stretch. He is appealing his speeding ticket - he wants to remain anonymous due to the ongoing proceedings.

Apparently unaware of the change, he argues, "They are not allowed to hide behind bushes or go incognito when catching speeding motorists - they are meant to be in high-viz jackets and in marked police cars."

He added "I realise I was speeding as I went into the 30mph section, but they purposely set themselves up there, hidden, to get as many people as possible. It's entrapment and I'll fight it." Source

With visible mobiles, at least you are warned that you are in a potential accident black spot and can adjust your speed accordingly. If the trend for hidden cameras continue, it is likely to follow that many more tickets will be issued.

See also Police Chief Calls For Hidden Speed Cameras
See also Tractor Speed Cameras Are Harvesting Results
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sussamb
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He 'realised he was speeding' but 'it's entrapment'. Really Rolling Eyes
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no sympathy for anyone caught seriously speeding. Limits are there for a reason.
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although sometimes the reason is not obvious. Just like miles of cones on the M-way.
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mhvideos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Although sometimes the reason is not obvious. Just like miles of cones on the M-way.


Or when a 30 in Suffolk was raised to a 40 with no change to the road at all. Suddenly it is safe to exceed the previous 30 limit. Work that one out!
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JimmyTheHand
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kremmen wrote:
I have no sympathy for anyone caught seriously speeding. Limits are there for a reason.


True but how often is that reason just because someone thought it a good idea.
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Philip
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kremmen wrote:
I have no sympathy for anyone caught seriously speeding. Limits are there for a reason.

Actually, there is very little evidential rationale for most of our speed limits, and very many are set for political or administrative reasons (for example, there used to be a road - with no houses on either side - leading into Ipswich, which was 30mph, but when it joined the Ipswich ring road, with lots of houses along it, it changed to 40mph. When I questioned why this should be, it was explained that the 30mph road was managed by Suffolk County Council, whereas the 40mph road came under the auspices of Ipswich Town Council!)

I'm also curious as to why somebody who holds your views is a "verifier" for a speed camera database which only exists to help people to evade prosecution for exceeding the speed limits...

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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip wrote:
Kremmen wrote:
I have no sympathy for anyone caught seriously speeding. Limits are there for a reason.
I'm also curious as to why somebody who holds your views is a "verifier" for a speed camera database which only exists to help people to evade prosecution for exceeding the speed limits.
Note Kremmen's word "seriously". In addition, he is a trusted member who has a record of accurately recording the location of speed cams and is prepared to put himself out for the benefit of others and database accuracy. Are you?
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Bunty1948
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmyTheHand wrote:
Kremmen wrote:
I have no sympathy for anyone caught seriously speeding. Limits are there for a reason.


True but how often is that reason just because someone thought it a good idea.


I'm sorry to add to this but as a retired civil engineer who spent the majority of his time in highway design I would like to point out that in most cases the adopted speed limit has little if anything to do with safety design and much more to do with county council and district council politics. I'd draw everyone's attention to the German and indeed most other European countries system of urban speed limits in that the town or village name plate denotes the beginning and end of the normal 50 kph speed limit. I'm never in doubt about what the speed limit is and in cases where this sign is only visible for a short distance then count down plates are used. In that way no one is in doubt as to the speed that they should be travelling. Lower speeds in children's' play areas are clearly marked and street furniture clearly denotes the type of area. In England we have a plethora of limits that are often obscured by the clutter of other road signs, trees, hedges and the like that makes it very difficult on occasions to identify the local limit. The use of repeater plates used to be excellent, now they are simply neglected or hidden. Whilst I do not condone reckless use of speed I equally do not condone the tactics of hiding speed cameras, lest we become like the French. I well remember the days when we had visible police presence that reminded the innocent to drive safely and deterred the errant and reckless drivers from driving stupidly and dangerously. Today we concentrate on catching people who exceed a notional speed limit and ignore the other more dangerous forms of driving because speed detection cameras do not and cannot record this type of behaviour. I continue to use both a standalone sat nav in my car, despite having an excellent built in device, as my stand alone one provides a reminder of the local speed limit as well as a tablet with CamerAlert for the same reason; and yes because I am human and may have missed the various unnecessary changes in speed limits to advise me where the may be a camera set to plunder my bank account.
I assume that everyone who reads the threads on this forum has paid for the use of the camera database, in which case if they never ever speed, why buy the database?

I'm sorry to do a rant, but as a professional, all be it retired, I get really annoyed when people go on endlessly about exceeding a notional speed limit as if it was a mortal crime. Reckless and inappropriate speeding certainly is but slipping across a speed limit boundary a few miles per hour is not. However, speed cameras don't detect acceleration or deceleration rates just a point speed.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What some posters have missed out on is my wording:

Quote:
I have no sympathy for anyone caught seriously speeding.


Note the word 'seriously'. I used that on purpose as I think we can all agree that it's all too easy in a modern quiet car to drift over some limits. I was aiming my comment to say the 40 to 50mph mob in 30mph areas.

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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kremmen wrote:
.... I think we can all agree that it's all too easy in a modern quiet car to drift over some limits.
Queue DennisN Very Happy
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Philip
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kremmen wrote:
What some posters have missed out on is my wording:

Quote:
I have no sympathy for anyone caught seriously speeding.

Right - I'd forgotten that you had been officially elected as the Speed Limit Monitor, and that the actual speed at which everybody can drive is the one that you have determined, rather than the one posted by the authorities (or even the guidelines issued by ACPO). Hence your contribution to the speed camera database, ensuring that people can drive at your limits, rather than having to bother with minor inconveniences like the law of the land.

Just for the avoidance of any doubt (and so that I can use it in my defence should I be prosecuted for speeding), can you please share with everybody here what the Official Kremmen Limit is in a 30/40/50/60/NSL zone?

Many thanks.

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sussamb
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow Philip, who's rattled your cage?

You're coming across as a bit aggressive, possibly not what you intended? I think if you read other posts from Kremmen you might get a better idea of his values as you seem to have the wrong idea about him.
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Kremmen
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that is the case for the prosecution your honour.

No matter how carefully you try and post a comment/personal view, someone will often read more into it and come back all guns blazing.

Just for the record I offered my services to help keep the database current as I've been using it for years and it does provide a very useful reminder to check your speed because there is a camera up ahead. On occasions, as I've already admitted, I do drift over the limit, slightly, and it serves me well.

I'll leave it at that I think.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bunty1948 wrote:
JimmyTheHand wrote:
Kremmen wrote:
I have no sympathy for anyone caught seriously speeding. Limits are there for a reason.


True but how often is that reason just because someone thought it a good idea.


I'm sorry to add to this but as a retired civil engineer who spent the majority of his time in highway design I would like to point out that in most cases the adopted speed limit has little if anything to do with safety design and much more to do with county council and district council politics.


How I wish this was more widely recognised!
Time after time we see these circular arguments on PGPSW about how the "limits are there for a reason" and Bunty is absolutely right, it is usually very little to do with actual measured safety concerns.

Another example I could give is the A40 elevated stretch eastbound into London.

The speed limit was "temporarily" reduced to 40mph while repairs were being done to the road joints. I have an email from someone explicitly saying the limit would revert to 50mph once the works were completed.

Of course it never happened, and around that time I believe Boris Johnson was reported as saying he wanted no roads over 40mph in the area of his jurisdiction.

Around the same time, all the lampposts were sawn off along that section and the road lost its A40(M) designation. All of that was done to pass the responsibility for funding from one government department to another. Nothing to do with safety.
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