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Emergency Power ?
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Mike777
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Joined: Feb 12, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Emergency Power ? Reply with quote

Hi all

Often I run out of power on my Active 10 and I am very tempted to buy one of these for an emergency.........Problem is I used something similar a while ago and it broke my active 10 ! ! !

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ricco-Portable-Battery-Emergency-Charger/dp/B000UUSUVQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1286970675&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Veho-VCC-A007-PBP-5000mAH-Portable-Battery/dp/B003F5WEMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1286970571&sr=8-1

Any idea if they are any good or other recommendations for emergency power ?

Many thanks

Regards

Mike
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RavingDave
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Joined: Oct 14, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency Power ? Reply with quote

Mike777 wrote:
......or other recommendations for emergency power ?

Mike


A set of 3 lithium AA batteries?
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nick789uk
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Location: Leyland UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi I use the power monkey with thw attachment of solar pannel I know it expensive I think I paid 65 bit once charged from the mains will last upto six months in ur sack and if it does drain you can plug in the solar pannel if you are out for a few days. Hope this helps.
Nick
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Gibbo10
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this...

http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=107700&PHPSESSID=c2n9nkldt450sl8h4q817famu3
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AllyCat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency Power ? Reply with quote

Mike777 wrote:
Often I run out of power on my Active 10 and I am very tempted to buy one of these for an emergency.........Problem is I used something similar a while ago and it broke my active 10 ! ! !

Hi Mike,

How did the previous charger "break" your Active 10? I don't have one myself but presume that it has a "Mini USB" connector which requires the standard 5.0 - 5.5 volts. There are many emergency or extender battery devices with such a connector. Some also provide a (standard size) USB female socket to use with the device's normal USB cable.

For "emergency" use the first device you linked is (currently) available from Maplin and mymemory for 2.99. It requires a single AA cell, Alkaline or Lithium for absolute emergencies or a rechargeable NiMH for more regular "extensions" of a few hours. Personally I much prefer the new "Hybrid" technology AA cells, and chargers with individual charging circuits (i.e. they can charge 1, 2, 3 or 4 cells at the same time), both available at good prices from 7dayshop (and elsewhere).

However, I think the designers have "missed a trick" with this first device. If you leave a battery in it, I think the internal "voltage step up" converter (which all devices considered here employ) will drain the battery fairly quickly. I've solved this potential problem by inserting a (home made) insulating washer (with a hole larger than the positive terminal of the battery) inside the positive end of the tube. Then I store the battery backwards in the tube to ensure no drain, and turn it the correct way when power is required. Incidentally, this charger (or at least the Maplin version) is one of few I have seen so far which includes the new "Micro USB" plug which is destined to become the "universal standard" phone charging connector.

The other chargers so far mentioned in this thread seem a little pricey for what they are, although most use LiIon batteries (which at 3.7 volts also need step-up circuitry) and re-charging facilities (from mains, USB or whatever). So take a look at the 19.50 product from here or this related thread.

Cheers, Alan.
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Mike777
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency Power ? Reply with quote

AllyCat wrote:
Mike777 wrote:
Often I run out of power on my Active 10 and I am very tempted to buy one of these for an emergency.........Problem is I used something similar a while ago and it broke my active 10 ! ! !

Hi Mike,

How did the previous charger "break" your Active 10? I don't have one myself but presume that it has a "Mini USB" connector which requires the standard 5.0 - 5.5 volts. There are many emergency or extender battery devices with such a connector. Some also provide a (standard size) USB female socket to use with the device's normal USB cable.

For "emergency" use the first device you linked is (currently) available from Maplin and mymemory for 2.99. It requires a single AA cell, Alkaline or Lithium for absolute emergencies or a rechargeable NiMH for more regular "extensions" of a few hours. Personally I much prefer the new "Hybrid" technology AA cells, and chargers with individual charging circuits (i.e. they can charge 1, 2, 3 or 4 cells at the same time), both available at good prices from 7dayshop (and elsewhere).

However, I think the designers have "missed a trick" with this first device. If you leave a battery in it, I think the internal "voltage step up" converter (which all devices considered here employ) will drain the battery fairly quickly. I've solved this potential problem by inserting a (home made) insulating washer (with a hole larger than the positive terminal of the battery) inside the positive end of the tube. Then I store the battery backwards in the tube to ensure no drain, and turn it the correct way when power is required. Incidentally, this charger (or at least the Maplin version) is one of few I have seen so far which includes the new "Micro USB" plug which is destined to become the "universal standard" phone charging connector.

The other chargers so far mentioned in this thread seem a little pricey for what they are, although most use LiIon batteries (which at 3.7 volts also need step-up circuitry) and re-charging facilities (from mains, USB or whatever). So take a look at the 19.50 product from here or this related thread.

Cheers, Alan.


Hi Alan

Many thanks for your reply appreciate your help.

The first charger I used was a Iwalk

http://www.u2ousa.com/pr_iwalk5400.html

When I plugged it in I guess it blew the the interim 'power circuit as it just did not work again......big problem as I was miles from home ! Hence my concern over these types of devices.

I often go out on long bike rides up to 7 days often with out access to power so the thought I having a back device which could charge my active 10 a fews times really appeals to me as long as it does not blow my unit again !

Hope this makes sense and would appreciate any views

Thanks

Regards

Mike


Last edited by Mike777 on Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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AllyCat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike,

I haven't seen the Iwalk before, but that it seems to have two different output voltages (5.3 and 8.4) and a much higher input voltage (presumably intended for direct connection to a car battery) does give some scope for disaster. However, I think you were probably very "unfortunate" for damage to occur, unless it's been very badly designed. All the other devices we're considering here have either 1.2 volt (NiMH) or 3.7 volt (LiIon) internal batteries and the step-up circuitry should limit the power and current to a "safe" level.

For a period as long as 7 days without access to power it might just be worth considering a large solar cell but this will still only give a few watts in bright summer sun. Actually a bicycle hub dynamo would probably generate enough power, but getting that power stored into a suitable battery is probably a DIY design and construction job. So IMHO your best option is one (or more) of these "power extenders" with sufficient capacity for your requirements. As I mentioned in the other thread, the actual cost of recharging from mains (or a car battery) is absolutely negligible.

The cheapest solution would probably be one of the AA-based devices (e.g. PowerChimp ) with a pocket-full of AA NiMH cells But LiIon cells are lighter and more compact (also better in very cold or high current applications) so one of the "built-in battery" types could be more satisfactory. To get a feel for the capacity required, here are a few figures; Probably the most useful for comparison are watt-hours (i.e. voltage x mAhour rating):

3 x AA Lithium batteries will give about 12 watt-hours for which Satmap quotes typically 16 hours operation (between "normal" and "advanced" power modes). They specify two LiIon (rechargeable) internal battery-packs of approximately 5.5 and 10 w.hrs, I guess normally the smaller is fitted? Each external AA NiMH cell could deliver about 2.5 w.hrs and the Veho (5000 mAh) device you linked to above perhaps 18 w.hrs.

Cheers, Alan.

PS: That Google link has made rather a mess of the formatting, perhaps you can edit it to this: http://www.u2ousa.com/pr_iwalk5400.html . Smile
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Mike777
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhhhhhhh/oohhhhhhh

So if the Iwalk u2o threw out 8.4 volts would that cause damage to the Active 10 ! ! ! Crying or Very sad

Regards

Mike
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M8TJT
The Other Tired Old Man
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Joined: Apr 04, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is highly possible that if you shove 8.4v up a 5.2v device, it could very easily fry it. They don't like it up 'em Mr. Manering
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Mike777
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
It is highly possible that if you shove 8.4v up a 5.2v device, it could very easily fry it. They don't like it up 'em Mr. Manering


OH........Pikey

Thanks for the reply..........only problem now is I can not find any way of switching the voltage on the Iwalk 5400 !

Does anyone one have any idea as I really struggling finding anything on the net to show how !!!

Many thanks

Mike
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 5400mHr unit the same as mentioned above and wasn't aware of any way to switch the voltage, at a guess the output voltage will be determined by the lead connected to the output, this would be an easy way to "select" between the two levels - I have to say I thought it was 5V only though - Mike
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Mike777
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikealder wrote:
I have a 5400mHr unit the same as mentioned above and wasn't aware of any way to switch the voltage, at a guess the output voltage will be determined by the lead connected to the output, this would be an easy way to "select" between the two levels - I have to say I thought it was 5V only though - Mike


Hi Mike

Can you just confirm you have used the 5400mHr on the active 10 with no problem ?

Also not sure what you mean by ......... 'voltage will be determined by the lead connected to the output, this would be an easy way to "select" between the two levels '

I just pluged the charger cable which came with the active 10 into the 5400 mhr's USB slot and then into the active 10 guess it fried it !

Great if you could confirm.

Many thanks

Mike
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AllyCat
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike (777),

Do you have any way to check the voltage as this might be a complete red herring? However, the 5400 seems to be the only device in their range which quotes a "dual voltage" output (and the higher input voltage) so it might be that particular model is supplied in two different (pre-set) voltage versions.

Some Garmin handheld GPSs used to require a minimum of about 8 volts but could accept direct connection to car/boat 12 volt or even lorry 24 volt batteries. But other Garmins which used the the same (proprietary) round connector would blow up with such voltages! Shocked

Does it have a "USB" output connector? It would be a terrible design if they put 8.4 volts on one of those (but a number of manufacturers have indeed used such connectors for "non-USB" functions). Maybe you should try the "contact" link on their webpage.

Have you also seen this thread where they seem to be connecting 3.6 volts directly into the battery compartment? The Satmap seems ideally suited to accepting either 3 x AA rechargeable cells (~3.6 volts) or a LiIon (nominally 3.7 volts). Certainly it may seem illogical to step up the voltage to ~5.5 volts to then have the Satmap reduce it to 3.6 volts again (with obviously some loss of energy) but I think I'd still prefer to use the normal external connector. In rare cases the two voltage converters might "confuse" each other but this is only likely to happen if the external converter cannot deliver sufficient current.

Cheers, Alan.
_________________
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Mike777
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AllyCat wrote:
Hi Mike (777),

Does it have a "USB" output connector? It would be a terrible design if they put 8.4 volts on one of those (but a number of manufacturers have indeed used such connectors for "non-USB" functions). Maybe you should try the "contact" link on their webpage.


Posted at the same time........!

See my post above your's reference USB, yes it does.

Regards

Mike
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PloddinPedro
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Emergency Power ? Reply with quote

Mike777 wrote:
......I often go out on long bike rides up to 7 days often with out access to power so the thought I having a back device which could charge my active 10......
I too use my Active 10 for long(ish) distance cycling. So far, I have simply taken spare batteries, either li-pol ones or AA cells, but I also hanker after something hassle-free and longer lasting.

If you use a dynohub on your bike, there a couple of devices which can be used to connect GPS, mobile 'phone, PDA or rechargeable lights to the dynohub. St. John Street Cycles (among others, possibly) sell them - see:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-muller-e-werk-dynamo-powered-device-charger-prod21393/

and:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-the-plug-hub-dynamo-powered-charging-device-prod23036/

I haven't yet tried either myself, but the idea of being able to tap into a (theoretically) unlimited power supply is appealling. The only downside I can see, apart from the cost - neither system is cheap - is the problem of keeping the wet out, but that's a problem with the Satmap anyway.
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