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GO940 - New TomTom App v9.054, Now No Live Services
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gazza70
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Joined: Feb 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: live services Reply with quote

SpikeyMikey wrote:
Jammy1 wrote:
Anyone tried the V9 update over the last couple of days?


The warning is still on their support page, I haven't a spare half a day to see if it works on mine or not (SWT)




have updated mine still the same error 1008 message for live services.
emailed tomtom as it has now screwed my subscription up.
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gazza70
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: live services Reply with quote

Jammy1 wrote:
mcwarre wrote:
gazza70 wrote:
oh well tomtom has lost my custom when my live subscription runs out, somebody at work has the navigon live satnav which has more fetures than the tomtom;i will be looking at these units in future.


What are their live services like? As good as tomtom HD traffic?


I've been taking an interest in the Navigon 70 Premium Live. Looks good value at £230 for a 5 inch screen and full European mapping. I believe Navigon use Inrix for their traffic, looks impressive on the website.

PS
Anyone tried the V9 update over the last couple of days?



i've ordered my navigon 70 premium live you get 15months free live services with this unit (had enough of tomtom on 3nd 540 unit in 8months ) battery went on 1unit and the screen went on 2nd and now this units battery will only last about 30min,
it seems the newer units aint built the same as my old go700
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madgee
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: live services Reply with quote

Jammy1 wrote:
mcwarre wrote:
gazza70 wrote:
oh well tomtom has lost my custom when my live subscription runs out, somebody at work has the navigon live satnav which has more fetures than the tomtom;i will be looking at these units in future.


What are their live services like? As good as tomtom HD traffic?


I've been taking an interest in the Navigon 70 Premium Live. Looks good value at £230 for a 5 inch screen and full European mapping. I believe Navigon use Inrix for their traffic, looks impressive on the website.

PS
Anyone tried the V9 update over the last couple of days?


So does anyone know if the Navigon/Inrix traffic system cover all roads like HD Traffic, as opposed to just major roads? If so, there is finally a real alternative to Tomtom!
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MrT
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So many people within their first few posts recommending Navigon, is there some sort of commercial spamming going on here?
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madgee
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrT wrote:
So many people within their first few posts recommending Navigon, is there some sort of commercial spamming going on here?


Well not from me, but a lot of people are fed up with Tomtom's customer non-services, myself included, so alternatives are worth considering.

However, HD Traffic has helped on so many occasions that it's the only thing tying me to Tomtom.
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MrT
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HD Traffic is the main thing that I want Satnav for as the vast majority of my trips are to places I have been many times before and I know the routes.

Inside the M25 there is so much variable congestion, I need to find the best path through it and even many local B roads are covered and as far as I know, TomTom are the only provider who cover to this level of detail.
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mcwarre
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrT wrote:
HD Traffic is the main thing that I want Satnav for as the vast majority of my trips are to places I have been many times before and I know the routes.


Ditto. The only thing keeping me is HD Traffic. As soon as something challenges or matches that I am off...............
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spook51
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm genuinely bewildered by some of the responses in this thread. What doesn't version 8.371 of Navcore do in terms of navigation, Live Services etc. that the faulty new version should have provided? Is it really so much that TomTom deserves condemnation for because it got it wrong? The devices still work without it, don't they - at least my 940 always has.
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WackyRaces
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
I'm genuinely bewildered by some of the responses in this thread. What doesn't version 8.371 of Navcore do in terms of navigation, Live Services etc. that the faulty new version should have provided?


Firstly it adds Eco Routes which in theory should be very valuable on a long journey where you don't always want to take the absolutely fastest route regardless of how much extra distance it adds (it may only be 1% quicker but say 25% longer to achieve that quickness). Ditto Shortest Route is usually nearly always a ludicrous choice involving numerous extra turns and back doubles through town centres. Unfortunately though as implemented by TomTom Eco Routes seems not to work and is currently near indistinguishable from Fastest Route on devices which can run it. Once again the marketing department at TomTom seems to be running ahead of the capacity of their backroom boffins to deliver.

Secondly Navcore 9 adds a valuable new route summary screen that distinguishes time of day related delays due to IQ Routes from real actual delays detected by HD Traffic

Many people also feel strongly that the x40 units should run this v9 Navcore because their hardware is either the same (540 and 740) or superior (940) to the equivalent x50 series model.

Quote:
Is it really so much that TomTom deserves condemnation for because it got it wrong?


Are you sure you don't work for TomTom as in my experience as a long suffering owner of their products they deserve all the criticism they get for some of the most unstable and unreliable Linux based software applications known to mankind that regularly freeze, lock up, loose features and do all manner of stupid things due to a poorly disciplined software development team that doesn't seem to test almost any product feature for robustness.

Only this very evening I was nearly killed by my TomTom device when it developed yet another bizarre new fault I had not previously experienced with voice directions being totally lost and even a full soft reboot several times not curing this. The last time I tried this reset manoeuvre I then nearly ploughed in to a line of unlit green plastic cones that some Spanish road planner had thoughtfully chosen to deposit in the middle of the road near a rural road junction. I had to swerve to avoid hitting the line of hard and fixed to the ground plastic cones and the car slewed wildly for a second and a half while I bashed my elbow hard on the window and my head on the roof before I finally brought the thing safely under control. OK I should have waited till I was sitting parked somewhere to try swapping between Kate and Vicki numerous times and then soft rebooting numerous times but as voice directions only occur on the move the temptation is to do it while you are moving. If TomTom's software was as reliable as a Miele dishwasher rather than a Hotpoint one then this near dice with death or a long hospital stay would not have happened

Quote:
The devices still work without it, don't they - at least my 940 always has.


Do you have the same 940 as the rest of us or a special one only designed for the press and TomTom marketing department personnel. Wink

My 940 has consistently frozen up, spontaneously rebooted, suddenly been unable to get HD Traffic, had the map freeze while voice directions continued and numerous other faults ever since I have had it. It is precisely because the devices don't work properly and never have with the v8 Navcore that leads many users to desperately hope that a v9 Navcore might be better.

Oh and to the list of things that don't work on a 940 I would add planning a journey in to a complex city centre like London in the rush hour where the unit may take up to 3 or 4 minutes to finish its calculations (compared to an x20 series model where the whole process takes less than 10 seconds).

And what about suddenly losing last satellite fix for no reason after the unit has been left off for a day or two and then having to drive along for a minute or two without any navigation provided before the unit eventually manages to triangulate its position from data broadcast by at least three satellites.

Then there are fuel prices with the TomTom database still full of endless garages that simply don't exist and others that do exist but where the last supplied price is months out of date whereas a rival service called petrolprices.com seems to have data that is getting on for 99% or more accurate. Lastly there is Google Search which seems great initially (in that the GPRS data link usually does work and brings up a list of live POIs you can select from the search term used) until you find that practically all the GPS coordinate supplied by Google Search are incorrect and that you either get directed to a POI that turns out to be a mile or so away from where you have been sent by your Satnav or to not exist at all. Out here in Spain the situation seems to be far worse than even in the UK and the Google database seems to full of endless phantom listings for the Eroski and other supermarket chains for stores that never ever have existed in the locations that are listed by TomTom based on the data they claim to obtain from Google.

To be honest I really can't actually believe that you could possibly sincerely claim that your 940 "always has " worked with v8.371 Navcore. I can only believe that some very expensive Rose Tinted Spectacles purchased out of an even larger TomTom marketing person's salary can possibly account for this level of unbridled optimism that 940 devices just "work" reliably with the originally supplied v8 Navcore.
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spook51
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assure you, I have no connection with TomTom and had to smile at the comments that owning a working 940 must mean that I do. I can understand why someone whose 940 has worked faultlessly might get your hackles up but to be honest, some of your problems have nothing to do with the operating system.

Admittedly, I don't use it every day and don't use all its features every trip. I agree the fuel price information is erroneous however, phantom filling stations apart, I've found it does give an indication of where the cheapest price is likely to be found even if the actual price is incorrect.

The two 'benefits' of using Navcore 9 you have mentioned aren't sufficient to persuade me I must have it on my 940 so I'll happily continue with it working as intended for the time being. Incidentally, bought it after the 950 had been released but information on PGPSW persuaded me to go for the earlier model - I've no regrets.
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madgee
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
I assure you, I have no connection with TomTom and had to smile at the comments that owning a working 940 must mean that I do. I can understand why someone whose 940 has worked faultlessly might get your hackles up but to be honest, some of your problems have nothing to do with the operating system.

Admittedly, I don't use it every day and don't use all its features every trip. I agree the fuel price information is erroneous however, phantom filling stations apart, I've found it does give an indication of where the cheapest price is likely to be found even if the actual price is incorrect.

The two 'benefits' of using Navcore 9 you have mentioned aren't sufficient to persuade me I must have it on my 940 so I'll happily continue with it working as intended for the time being. Incidentally, bought it after the 950 had been released but information on PGPSW persuaded me to go for the earlier model - I've no regrets.



I too have a 940 that works perfectly well, but having had two faulty units in the past, and no real help from customer services, my main beef is that they now release an update that hasn't been tested on UK units.

This update and subsequent reinstallation of Navcore 8 has wasted my time and they haven't even pulled the faulty update from Tomtom Home. This is inexcusable and demonstrates a lack of communication in the company when it comes to resolving issues.

In such a competitive market, Tomtom must recognize the importance of keeping itís customers on board, rather than causing them hassle.
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WackyRaces
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
Admittedly, I don't use it every day and don't use all its features every trip. I agree the fuel price information is erroneous however, phantom filling stations apart, I've found it does give an indication of where the cheapest price is likely to be found even if the actual price is incorrect.


I also don't use my 940 live every day as I work from home and there may be days at a time when I am driving nowhere. But when I do drive I often take long journeys across very traffic congested sections of road and/or long distance across a continent (mainly Europe or the USA).

Whenever I do use the unit I unfortunately find it is lacking in many areas ranging from basic navigation (mainly caused by out of date TomTom map data compared to other online sources that were also available at the same time that the TomTom map data of my current map version was compiled) through HD Traffic (a lot of traffic jams still seem to persist for up to an hour beyond when they last disappeared on TomTom's system contrary to their marketing claims of updating every 3 minutes) to most of the other Live services (eg fuel prices and Google Search both being heavily defective). It is also somewhat beyond me why TomTom have still not launched HD Traffic in Spain when Vodafone is one of the two leading mobile networks in the country and the service has been out in Portugal for over a year. Despite this I can at least get a Spanish weather report when I am in Spain (about the only TomTom Live service that seems to actually work as advertised without defect) and Google for POIs that frequently prove not to even exist when I get there!

To me your apparent view that you can't expect a manufacturer to update their firmware beyond what you got on day one seems out of date for a product this expensive and with an ongoing monthly subscription involved. Ever since Windows 2000 and Windows XP Microsoft have nobly rolled out numerous free operating system bug fixes and functionality updates to customers not paying an ongoing subscription over many years simply to protect their corporate good name. They do eventully give the whole operating system a completely new name every two or three years with some more modest further functional improvements but even then they still continue rolling out free updates for at least three years (or often a lot longer) after the previous operating system was last being sold with any new units. Your idea that one simply can't expect an operating system to evolve at all beyond what it was at the time of purchase seems to me to hark back to early Windows 3.11 days.

Quote:
The two 'benefits' of using Navcore 9 you have mentioned aren't sufficient to persuade me I must have it on my 940 so I'll happily continue with it working as intended for the time being. Incidentally, bought it after the 950 had been released but information on PGPSW persuaded me to go for the earlier model - I've no regrets.


But I can't see what is so good about Navcore 8 that means you apparently see no need for any further improvement and are stubbornly wedded to continued use of its last Navcore 8.371 iteration? Although I'm still using Navcore 8.371 myself that's solely because Navcore 9.054 whilst offered to me by TomTom Home is known to be defective and would stop Live services working on my unit if I used it. As and when I hear it works with UK x40 series units then I will of course happily download it and install it. However with the frequently ostrich like corporate behaviour of TomTom in dealing with software defects I'm entirely resigned to the fact that for UK 940 owners sadly that day may never come. Evil or Very Mad
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spook51
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I've got to the stage in life (60) when other things are more valuable than having the latest firmware on my TomTom. It's not that big a deal to me that my 940 doesn't have eco routing and if TomTom had never introduced it in the latest version, would anyone have missed it or clamoured for it or any of the other features in Navcore 9?

I don't continually compare what I've bought with competitors' products. If I've chosen badly, I live with it - life's too short to be constantly picking over the bones of what happened yesterday.
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matthewj
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the main problem is not this one individual incident, but that it is a part of a long catalogue of incomplete and poorly implemented features. Like the map updates which discard your favourites without warning. Like map share which discards all your changes because they are for the old map, so we start afresh each time. Like the LIVE renewal system that took about 3 months to stop, and was impossible to renew until it had actually ended because the software couldn't handle it. Like the LIVE traffic, which is excellent until a road is closed, and then effectively falls apart because it must be manually added, and then manually removed (apparently) before it can handle it.

No incident is big in and of itself, but each is wearing and makes one look for an alternative next time you are in the market for a new satnav. I wonder how many people would recommend a TomTom right now? Me, I'd consider carefully whether someone was able to handle the hassles.
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WackyRaces
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
I don't continually compare what I've bought with competitors' products. If I've chosen badly, I live with it - life's too short to be constantly picking over the bones of what happened yesterday.


It seems to me that you are failing to distinguish here between product enhancements related to software rather than hardware. And you are also failing to distinguish between a simple analogue product like a vacuum cleaner that cannot evolve after purchase and one running software and firmware that can continue to evolve if those elements are updated.

There are no hardware related enhancements in the x50 series compared to the x40 series, in fact quite the reverse as the 940 units had their FM transmitter supporting the juke box software feature removed.

Where hardware has improved due to component advance then tough as clearly your old unit can only work with the hardware it has (the change to wide screen supporting tvs and Hd tvs being a classic example). But where software has improved and older hardware can run it quite successfully (hence my Windows operating system analogy) then why would a manufacturer not also offer the upgrade to earlier versions of their products?

Of course in this case what should be a clearly trivial issue with different SIM card versions in different countries inside the x40 series issue has emerged as a problem but (a) fixing this should be a simple sofware upgrade that even the most minimally competent Linux team of programmers should be able to address and (b) if for some reason the problem can only be resolved by installing a new SIM card (which cost about 30p per unit for TomTom to buy but a bit more to post out) in the UK models then that would again have been simple had TomTom provided the sort of easy customer access to both the battery and the SIM card in their units that any mobile phone manufacturer gives to their customers.

But no because TomTom seems to be a company pathologically deliberately committed to the shortest possible life for their products they have sealed the battery and the SIM inside a unit that cannot be safely disassembled by the customer meaning that if the SIM card issue doesn't get them then sooner or later the battery charge holding issue definitely will. Evil or Very Mad
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