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WARNING - TomTom's fuel POIs can disrupt the Camera warnings
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:08 am    Post subject: WARNING - TomTom's fuel POIs can disrupt the Camera warnings Reply with quote

That's right...
TomTom's fuel POIs can disrupt the PGPSW Camera warnings!


Sorry if this turns into a long post, but first a bit of background....

When I was researching some of the ridiculous fuel prices suggested by TT's LIVE Services, I came across a slightly disturbing fact.

As we know, the TT 'premium' Petrol Stations POIs included with the Fuel Prices Live service use a different set of data from the ordinary Petrol Station POIs, and often they showed the same station in two different places.
How embarrassing for TomTom....

But recently, I've noticed a lot of them weren't doing that any more.

However, rather than them sorting it out properly, I found that TomTom had done a sneaky trick just to disguise the problem.

On recent software, having a premium fuel POI on screen stops the ordinary fuel POI being displayed, if it's within a certain radius.

However....when a premium fuel POI is shown on screen, it also stops ANY OTHER nearby POI's from showing too!
(Try it... If you have LIVE Services, find a "fuel prices" petrol station, and put a new POI of your own close by. It doesn't show up, unless you switch off their petrol stations!

At first I thought this might be a strange, but minor inconvenience, but since I've been looking for it, I've already seen two examples where having the premium fuel POIs enabled has stopped a PGPSW camera alert from working.

Here's one of them, and you don't even need to drive there to see what's wrong.
Look on the map at N51.50893 W0.15543. That's Park Lane in Central London, and there's a Gatso camera on the Northbound carriageway, which you'll see, if you have that POI category set to show on the map.




Now select the "Petrol Station" POI to show on the map too. One will appear on the southbound carriageway by Mount Street, but where has the Gatso gone?!?!



And it's not just on the map page. Run a demo of a route along Park lane and you'll see what happens on the road...

Here it is, with the PGPSW cameras set to warn as normal:




Now (without even stopping the demo), switch the TomTom premium Petrol Stations to show as well:



... No POI on screen, no visual alert at the top left corner and no audible warning either!

Strangely, their OWN camera alerts are unaffected by this new "feature".... Nasty, eh?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice finding Andy, perhaps this is as good reason as any to remove the useless fuel prices files from the device for good, I am sick of inaccurate prices and certainly don't trust the locations it offers let alone the price.

As you have found if you query any fuel price errors they ask for specific locations/ dates/ time, if you then supply this information they do nothing, fuel prices are yet another part of the Live services that are a useless waste of time - Mike
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spook51
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I experienced this earlier today or rather, it could explain why I wasn't warned of a 30mph Gatso but there was a 'squawk' for subsequent ones.

The location is on the A57 in Mottram, soon after leaving the M67. The camera (painted green) is on the opposite side of the road about 50m before the Texaco filling station.

I thought it happened a few weeks ago but it's not a regular route of mine so wasn't able to check until today. Regular drivers in the area may wish to double check.
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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How unusual of them to fix a bug by masking it instead of resolving the actual problem Twisted Evil
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darren wrote:
How unusual of them to fix a bug by masking it instead of resolving the actual problem Twisted Evil

Yes. It makes me wonder why they didn't do something similar with the crackly volume and the battery rundown. Hang on, they did, didn't they? Rolling Eyes

PS See my signature - The correct answer is B - you go home with nothing!
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Dennis

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Two of them are obesiting!!
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Andy_P
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You forgot the mp3 player, the FM transmitter, and maybe soon... MapShare?
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DennisN
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absence makes the heart grow fonder - I'd forgotten all about those, it's so long since I used them (since I busted something trying to use them).

PS They can bust Mapshare just as soon as they like for me (but only after they get it working, of course). Laughing
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spook51 wrote:
The location is on the A57 in Mottram, soon after leaving the M67. The camera (painted green) is on the opposite side of the road about 50m before the Texaco filling station.
Is green not an unusual colour for a speed cam?? Is this allowed?
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Darren
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
Is green not an unusual colour for a speed cam?? Is this allowed?

There are no longer any requirements for them to be 'high-viz'. They introduced a rule requiring them to be and then they dropped it.

So as it stands they can be yellow, green or camouflage if they so please Rolling Eyes
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spook51
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M8TJT wrote:
spook51 wrote:
The location is on the A57 in Mottram, soon after leaving the M67. The camera (painted green) is on the opposite side of the road about 50m before the Texaco filling station.
Is green not an unusual colour for a speed cam?? Is this allowed?


It's a matt pea green/light olive colour; there are a couple on that stretch of road.
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nivek22
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't these the Watchman cameras discussed a while ago?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed they are Watchman cameras, that area has quite a few mostly in Green but around one of the Universities in the East side of Manchester they are dark Blue! - Mike
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BMW330
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:20 pm    Post subject: Re: WARNING - TomTom's fuel POIs can disrupt the Camera warn Reply with quote

Andy_P wrote:
[b]That's right...
However, rather than them sorting it out properly, I found that TomTom had done a sneaky trick just to disguise the problem.

On recent software, having a premium fuel POI on screen stops the ordinary fuel POI being displayed, if it's within a certain radius.

TomTom is not the first system to do this - the Siemens/VDO-based navigation systems used in BMW, VW, Vauxhaul, Alpine etc do the same thing. Apparently it's because the POI data included with their maps is somewhat, err, "dirty", so rather than scrub the data, they simply suppress multiple POI within about a 50m-75m radius.

PS: What really annoys me is how easy it is for someone with high school maths to find POI duplicates in the data that are x distance apart, but no, let's rather write some Censored code...
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M8TJT
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: WARNING - TomTom's fuel POIs can disrupt the Camera warn Reply with quote

BMW330 wrote:
PS: What really annoys me is how easy it is for someone with high school maths to find POI duplicates in the data that are x distance apart, but no, let's rather write some Censored code...
Even worse, they must already have the gash code do the sums on the fly in the satnav, else how would they know the 'other' poi is close enough to suppress?
Paul: Embarassed


Last edited by M8TJT on Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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PaulB2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't use asterisks to circumvent the auto censor....
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