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Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject:
No traffic system is ever going to be 100% real time data, only today I was delayed by a crash I saw happen on the M40 - what followed was a lengthy delay as the medics tended to the injured and used the road surface as a helicopter landing pad, I only hope the individuals that were caught up in the accident are OK.
What's this got to do with traffic information - I had only been stationary for less than ten minutes when the 930 informed me the road ahead was closed and did I want to re-route - thats RDS-TMC working as it should do, no system can predict anything other than basic highway maintenance work, it will only ever be a reactive system to major incidents such as the one I got delayed by earlier today.
Live should enhance this service delivering better information via a more reliable medium with a higher accuracy due to additional data sources, but lets face some facts the RDS system told me what I already knew - the road was closed and that was within ten minutes, this is more than acceptable as a service to me - sadly I couldn't compare the Live service with this incident as I don't have the hardware - Mike
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:32 am Post subject:
carl_the_cobbler wrote:
Does anyone know how many Vodafones there need to be stopped before a jam is reported,
That kind of detailed information is not available
Quote:
for example during the evening when there are a few people by the roadside outside a pub having a ciggie, and they all have a Vodafone in their pockets would that show?
There are anomalies that TT can iron out, for example they showed us a section of high speed rail that runs between the two carriageways of M-Way near Schipol Airport in Amsterdam.
When the train was stopped at a red light the system was sensitive enough to show what appeared to be halted traffic on the Motorway! They have now corrected this issue!
In your scenario this could only be an issue if those drinkers had been running down the road at 30mph before they stopped outside the pub all within seconds of each other
It's not perfect, no solution will ever be but it is very clever. _________________ Darren Griffin
My TT 540 arrived yesterday. My first 'proper' satnav (myguide 3100 was a bit mickey mouse).
I took my usual commute to work from Peterborough to Cambridge (A1M, A14 -eugh)
A14 was it's usual stop-start self, however despite stopping at least 5 times for a few minutes each time and the general level of traffic being as high as ever, the route appeared traffic-free on the Traffic HD front the entire commute.
When I arrived at cambridge, the usual route was again queueing almost onto the M11, no traffic reported on the nav.
I wasn't expecting magic, but i'd at least have expected some (even delayed) indication of a good 1-2 mile worth of queuing at peak time.
The location services seem to work well. Though I've not put it to a live test yet.
Another thing that disappointed me was the Safety Cameras - over 6 month old cameras still showing, and the newer average-speed cameras absent. I'm not sure how long they've been up, but it's at least 6 months. I'm sure I can find an alternative database ;)
Overall, during my first trip the unit's ability to navigate me, which is nothing my old myguide didn't do was the only saving grace. HD Traffic nor Speed Cameras impressed me. Infact, overall, I'm slightly disappointed.
If I could spend my money again, I'd go for a TMC + basic nav model and save myself at least £100. Maybe in a few weeks I might start to realise its worth. I hope so
Thanks for information on your daily commute. I travel that route too, and have found GPRS to be hit and miss with reagrds reporting the traffic situation, especially for area where traffic seperates for A14 and M11 going to Cambridge.
But in general I am happy GPRS, so long as it does report the traffic situation, even if I am sitting in a queue, for as Mike stated, 'No traffic system is ever going to be 100% real time data', and at somepoint you will be caught up in traffic. _________________ Mick
Go 1005 in need of resuscitation
GO 950 Dead,
GO 920 Dead
My TT 540 arrived yesterday. My first 'proper' satnav (myguide 3100 was a bit mickey mouse).
I took my usual commute to work from Peterborough to Cambridge (A1M, A14 -eugh)
A14 was it's usual stop-start self, however despite stopping at least 5 times for a few minutes each time and the general level of traffic being as high as ever, the route appeared traffic-free on the Traffic HD front the entire commute.
When I arrived at cambridge, the usual route was again queueing almost onto the M11, no traffic reported on the nav.
I wasn't expecting magic, but i'd at least have expected some (even delayed) indication of a good 1-2 mile worth of queuing at peak time.
The location services seem to work well. Though I've not put it to a live test yet.
Another thing that disappointed me was the Safety Cameras - over 6 month old cameras still showing, and the newer average-speed cameras absent. I'm not sure how long they've been up, but it's at least 6 months. I'm sure I can find an alternative database ;)
Overall, during my first trip the unit's ability to navigate me, which is nothing my old myguide didn't do was the only saving grace. HD Traffic nor Speed Cameras impressed me. Infact, overall, I'm slightly disappointed.
If I could spend my money again, I'd go for a TMC + basic nav model and save myself at least £100. Maybe in a few weeks I might start to realise its worth. I hope so
It's still early days and I would expect it to improve. I've had a similar experience. I had a 530 which I paid £279 from halfords at the time, this was cheaper than that, but obviously 530 prices have gone down..
Today on my route, i experienced about 15mins delay in traffic on A roads which the 540 didn't report. It's like this every day and with 95% coverage i was surprised this wasn't tracked as all 3 lanes were slow moving. Even slower on the opposite side with at least half mile of traffic.
That said, I had an OK experience with TMC, problem was I couldn't trust it as it would give me incorrect info some of the time. But at least this one can report more accurate information regarding traffic. You do get the same benefits as a RDS receiver since it collects information from those sources as well.
In regards to the new IQRoutes, wasn't as impressive either. Although it would display different routes for different times of the day, the estimated arrival time was less accurate than the 530. On this it claimed it was going to take me 7mins to travel 10 metres, while it took me a few seconds..
And finally, it didn't report a single camera, even fixed ones despite me going through 5 of them. The 530 did report those..
I'm still hopeful and time will tell whether or not it was a good buy.. I wouldn't say dissapointed at this point, but I was expecting more - perhaps I had better expectionations.
Last edited by stealthdevil on Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
A14 was it's usual stop-start self, however despite stopping at least 5 times for a few minutes each time and the general level of traffic being as high as ever, the route appeared traffic-free on the Traffic HD front the entire commute.
You said "usual start-stop self". If something is usual, it should not show up as a traffic delay but be counted via the IQ Routes instead.
So for example, if a road is ALWAYS busy from 9-11am...then that is the usual for it, not a special traffic delay. Otherwise it would always show up as a traffic problem every day of the week!
This is where IQ routes comes in by considering average speeds that are considered normal. A traffic issue is something where there is a deviation from the expected norm for that road.
That is my understand...perhaps Darren et al can correct me if I am wrong.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:35 am Post subject:
That's how I understand it but HD Traffic should also report it if the traffic is slow enough to meet the criteria whatever they are.
HD Traffic coverage is not 100% yet though and it may be that this road albeit a trunk route is not yet encompassed. The coverage is expanding day by day as the data comes in and gets fine tuned. _________________ Darren Griffin
Last edited by Darren on Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
A14 was it's usual stop-start self, however despite stopping at least 5 times for a few minutes each time and the general level of traffic being as high as ever, the route appeared traffic-free on the Traffic HD front the entire commute.
You said "usual start-stop self". If something is usual, it should not show up as a traffic delay but be counted via the IQ Routes instead.
So for example, if a road is ALWAYS busy from 9-11am...then that is the usual for it, not a special traffic delay. Otherwise it would always show up as a traffic problem every day of the week!
I was kind of expecting to see congestion reported as traffic, so I can avoid it if I choose, or take that route because it is not as bad on this day.
I guess there is a case for both.
I'll check the IQ routes tomorrow (I forgot to check ETA before setting off) and see how accurate it is - but I know I was at least 15 minutes later than it told me at one point.
So if the IQ routes is wrong (more than 15 minutes out over a 45 minute journey in clear air) and the traffic is shown as clear, would I be unreasonable to expect better?
I really don't know what to expect - this is your realm, tell me straight
Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 297 Location: Dundee, Scotland UK
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject:
Just a few first impressions on the new x40 LIVE services.
Just returned from Blackpool today, routing along the M55, M6 (N), A74M, M74, M9, A9, and the A90.
Tomtom's Safety cameras
Along that route I spotted 3 fixed cameras that were missing form there database which was updated this morning. These cameras had, by their appearance, evidently been there for some time. The other warnings along the route appeared to be accurate enough.
HD Traffic
We passed through several sections of road with lane restrictions, contraflows, and speed restrictions. Not a single one was highlighted in the traffic information along our route. To wards the end of the journey, again we passed through a contraflow on the A90 just outside Dundee. Traffic heading westbound appeared to be traveling between standing and 20mph (NSL dual carriageway) and extended for 2/3 miles yet this wasn't displayed in the traffic info.
On a positive note, whilst traveling up the M6 yesterday evening we were caught up in a small rear-end shunt in the outside lane. (transpires there were actually two, about a mile apart). Just as we started to slow for the traffic ahead, HD Traffic reported the incident, (and also that there was no alternative faster route), less than a few min later, the 'Accident ahead' overhead gantry signs came on, followed by some HA officers passing us in the hard shoulder. So i can't fault it's effectiveness here, as it got the info to me quicker than anyone else. It was accurate at reporting the location of the incident(s), however, it didn't inform of how long the tailbacks were going to be.
Even looking at the HD Traffic display now, I see no information other than traffic congestion, where as my old GPRS service would (and still is right now) showing me lane restrictions, contraflows, roadworks, accidents, road closures etc.
UPDATE: my GPRS Traffic is now showing the congestion on the A90 westbound as mentioned above.....HD Traffic is not!
GPRS Traffic is showing 150 incident in my area....HD Traffic is showing 3
(Sorry, this was the best attempt at adding pictures I could come up with.) _________________ Graeme Bennett
Go 540 LIVE
App. 9.510.1234792.1 (2039,04/04/2013)
United Kingdom & ROI v945.6174
Last edited by Graeme2812 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject:
Graeme2812 wrote:
Tomtom's Safety cameras
Along that route I spotted 3 fixed cameras that were missing form there database which was updated this morning. These cameras had, by their appearance, evidently been there for some time. The other warnings along the route appeared to be accurate enough.
Graeme, is this the x40 LIVE cameras? We need to be clear as these are different from TomTom's other cameras? _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 297 Location: Dundee, Scotland UK
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject:
Darren wrote:
Graeme2812 wrote:
Tomtom's Safety cameras
Along that route I spotted 3 fixed cameras that were missing form there database which was updated this morning. These cameras had, by their appearance, evidently been there for some time. The other warnings along the route appeared to be accurate enough.
Graeme, is this the x40 LIVE cameras? We need to be clear as these are different from TomTom's other cameras?
Sorry Darren, The cameras I am referring to are the ones provided with the x40 LIVE services, I have no other database installed/activated. _________________ Graeme Bennett
Go 540 LIVE
App. 9.510.1234792.1 (2039,04/04/2013)
United Kingdom & ROI v945.6174
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