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Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject:
chris_ah1 wrote:
OMG stop with the banal hijacking guys. Nobody cares about piracy if he did it.
Another potential problem with IQ routes is that it might have far more data for the motorway than the local roads it re-routes you to. In that case you could go from the devil you know....to the devil you don't.
First on piracy. If we say nothing, we by default condone it. That's wrong, very wrong - nobody should have to work for nothing and piracy (or theft) takes the earnings away. There's no difference between piracy and the Nasty who robs you of your wage packet. Speak up against it.
Most importantly, your comments on IQ routing are excellent. I strongly believe that firmware v7.481 on my 920 is slightly moving that way, to the extent that it now instructs me to go past my usual M4 exit, to the next one, then double back to get home - the 720 alongside it directs me off my usual exit and actually shows several miles shorter and several minutes faster!!
"The devil you don't know" is where I lose faith in IQ routing - TomTom haven't been there and those roads are all national speed limit, 60mph single track lanes with very few passing places and loose cows round every corner! I think it was Lutz Bendlin who told us a long time ago that IQ routing would be using historical data, collected over a year. Obviously, it's not being updated by the likes of MapShare, so the map data is at this stage quite "young" and incomplete AND at least as old as the map data in whatever the latest map is.
Personally, I can't agree with the IQ routing principal, because it uses collected data and where it has no data, it has to assume. It'll take years (if ever) to get data for all the lanes. Locally, we are in the middle of a major 12 week closure of the A36. This time next year, IQ routes will show the A36 and its feeder lanes as having no delays and the diversion route being clogged. So we'll all be directed back onto the A36 section which I know to avoid like the plague. Next week sees the commencement of serious roadworks delays for 16 weeks on one of the only two bridges across the river between Bath and Bristol, so again next year the routing will be influenced by it (for a year, until the data expires - IF it ever expires with IQ routing sending us all different ways from normal!!)
If TT would instead go back to having enough different classes of road to calculate properly, I'd be much happier. And it would be so much easier for them to do, because all our roads have an official classification of several levels (and don't I remember my GO300 had an option to use or ignore D class roads or something of that nature?). Prioritising routing in accordance with such classification would avoid (or indeed select) all the back roads and they could also add a factor for busy cities. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject:
Seven? I wish!! (I have no idea how many we have, but I think I'd probably be greatly cheered by seven - it feels like three). _________________ Dennis
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 212 Location: Fife Scotland
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject:
Regarding this possible piracy thing (or typo, ) as a subscriber/user of a huge resource we have to remember that a lot of the info that the site owners/moderators get come from their links and affiliations with the likes of TomTom,Garmin etc.
They have to be seen to minimise the discussion of piracy otherwise any support offered by affiliates could be withdrawn as it is them that would be directly affected by such piracy.
We, as users of this site would be the ultimate losers though.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject:
Tomo wrote:
a lot of the info that the site owners/moderators get come from their links and affiliations with the likes of TomTom,Garmin etc.
They have to be seen to minimise the discussion of piracy otherwise any support offered by affiliates could be withdrawn
Sorry, but I have to disillusion you here.
First, I for one, and I believe almost every other Moderator, has no connection whatsoever with the likes of TomTom and Garmin etc - IF ONLY!! I'd have fully working devices, fully up to date maps, you name it. I sometimes think they have some method of identifying me to make sure my kit breaks down! I have been totally unsuccessful at getting a working Traffic service and my most recent (still unresolved) fiasco over the Latest Map Guarantee for my three weeks old ONE doesn't bear thinking about. And as for getting info through links and affiliations - you must be joking! The very fact that this forum discovers, shares and propagates useful information is its greatest asset - certainly TomTom support don't know anything like what this forum does.
I think a small number of them do undertake BETA testing of devices, firmware and maps - not too sure, because they stick with the Non Disclosure Agreements - the best you can get from any of them is a very faint hint that they're looking at something new. For example, we all knew Darren was going to Holland recently and we all thought it was to announce Navcore 8 for the peasants, but it wasn't - there was a new device released.
I myself took part in one Beta map test in February, but I was selected (along with a number of other pgpsw members) for it simply by filling in the form - I presumed that my high mileage to all corners of the country is what persuaded them to choose me. The only contact I had with them was on the same lines as with their customer support.
Certainly, some of PGPSW team have the ear of some of the companies, but I'd bet it's more on the lines of the companies wanting to listen to them than that they are tolerated. This is, after all, the biggest GPS forum in the world, got to count for listening brownie points.
The piracy issue is up front and in their faces - for a long time, unscrupulous ***s have been passing copies of the PGPSW camera database to those who hand them out as free downloads. Make no mistake, those who hand them out free are NOT doing it for free, they're making money out of it, just like the "free" advertising newspapers and magazines you get every week.
So piracy may be a moral issue for most of us (it is for me), but for PGPSW it's hitting them where it hurts. They're not just high-minded do-gooders, they're protecting themselves against the baddies. That they condemn piracy against other companies is evidence only that they are not hypocrites. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 01, 2007 Posts: 143 Location: New England, USA
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject:
Just to add fuel to the fire...Would running NC8 on a 720 constitute piracy IF this allowed the user to then download and pay for legitimate 8.05 maps? Seems a bit gray to me, since TomTom would be getting paid for the intellectual property of the map, but getting not getting paid for the software. Is there a price difference built into the series 8 maps to accomodate this (like US and Canada at $80 vs. North America at $100)? Sort of like the software for PDAs is essentially free, but the maps are where they make their money.
Also, where is the information of the number of road classes coming from? Does TomTom compress the Tele Atlas data?
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject:
In my earlier reply I said this was a grey area, it is perhaps a breach of the EULA but as TomTom traditionally do not charge for the application updates I don't personally see this as an issue. _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject:
Well not only has this thread let other user know some PGPSW members views on the IQ routes (which are very good in the NW from what I experience daily) - it has also highlighted the stance we take on pirate software, its a simple zero tolerance, no line is needed.
Using a 730 I am sure there are quite a few other additions you can make to the forum in way of knowledge such as you thoughts on the reality view and lane assistance arrows, lets face it there is little additional difference between vs7 and vs8 other than this - Mike
First on piracy. If we say nothing, we by default condone it. That's wrong, very wrong - nobody should have to work for nothing and piracy (or theft) takes the earnings away. There's no difference between piracy and the Nasty who robs you of your wage packet. Speak up against it.
Never taped an album or recorded a song off the radio then DennisN?
Because if haven't then you are the first person ever in my experience.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14892 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject:
Voltage wrote:
Never taped an album or recorded a song off the radio then DennisN?
Because if haven't then you are the first person ever in my experience.
Nope. And I consider that to be piracy too. Where's the dividing line on stealing? The closest I've come to it is that I once copied half a dozen of Vera's albums from the CDs she has bought, onto an SD card to play in the van through my TomTom as we drive - the SD card is smaller than a pack of CDs.
Having said which, I do occasionally record her TV programmes on the DVD recorder for her to watch later when we know in advance she'll be out when they are broadcast. _________________ Dennis
Drifting off-topic ever so slightly, but if I remember rightly thats 'unlawful' too! There's a specific period of time (a week?) during which you have a right to view programmes you've recorded on, say, a video recorder or a hard drive recorder. After that, apparently, you're breaking copyright by holding on to it.
In fact, its worse than that. Some loony TV company chairman (channel 5?) said in an interview a year or so ago that recording a programme as it was transmitted for watching later, but then fast-forwarding through the adverts, was "stealing programming". Its barmy mentalities like that which breed disrespect for ALL copyrights, rather than the more genuine variety that this thread is referring to. Personally, I've copied all my audio CD's to MP3, and I have copies of data CD's too. The fact that this makes me some sort of pirate bothers me not a jot. Trouble is, though, that being a fan of 'may as well be hung' logic, I dont feel its a huge step to go on to downloading MP3's from the net from audio I DONT have.
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) as a subscriber/user of a huge resource we have to remember that a lot of the info that the site owners/moderators get come from their links and affiliations with the likes of TomTom,Garmin etc.
