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Hamie
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Joined: Dec 30, 2003
Posts: 177
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 Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: M4 traffic information |
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| ttquattroman wrote: | Hi,
I have been travelling up and down the M4 from reading to Swindon, my Tomtom720 + TMC constantly reports lane closeure between Juntion 15 & 14 and Junction 15 & 14. Unfortunatley when you get to these junctions there are no lane closures.
Can anyone shed any light.
Peter |
Hmm... Same goes for the 'Narrow Lanes' between J6 & J7 of the M4... Both directions. There are NO narrow lanes at J6... Meanwhile the real narrow lanes & 80kmhr limit at J12 or so is completely ignored...
Hey ITiS! Can you please explain why we've got narrow lanes where the road is fine, and no traffic or slowdown reported at J12 where the traffic is restricted to 80kmhr (The 80k limit is enough to add about 5 minutes to a journey through there, so surely it should be listed in the traffic).
I notice also that the narrow lanes at J6 is echo'ed on the AA website in their traffic map... I take it IToS supply traffioc data to the AA for this?
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Retty
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Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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There are some odd reports appearing and I'm not sure what to make of them.
One such congestion warning appeared at about 17:50 today. The main heading direction was Guildford to Bracknell and the subheading agreed with the main heading direction (which is unusual for the Mio C710 where it is more often than not usual for the 2 headings to disagree with each other in terms of direction).
The sub-heading read: Brookwood to Lightwater and the average speed of traffic was described as 12 mph. That's an east to west direction and this was confirmed by the graphical mapping of the jam.
Yet there was absolutely no jam or sign of congestion at all on the road/direction in question: certainly not from Brookwood to Lightwater. It is usual for there to be some congestion on the Lightwater side approach to the M3.
I'm not sure what's going on but I've noticed at least 3 false alerts in the past week or so. I didn't unfortunately get the time details of the others but one reported an accident on Sunday night on the M3 between Camberley and Farnborough on the south bound carriageway at, iirc, about 8 PM or so (may have been slightly eralier or later). There was no sign of an accident at the points in question at the time of the report. Traffic was moving freely. |
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zzr1200
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Joined: Jun 05, 2005
Posts: 205
Location: Gloucestershire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: Re: M4 traffic information |
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| ttquattroman wrote: | Hi,
I have been travelling up and down the M4 from reading to Swindon, my Tomtom720 + TMC constantly reports lane closeure between Juntion 15 & 14 and Junction 15 & 14. Unfortunatley when you get to these junctions there are no lane closures.
Can anyone shed any light.
Peter |
This is work that was supposed to start on Monday but hasn't quite started yet!!! When it does, it will be one of those long term roadworks with 50MPH average cameras. |
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swing
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Nov 04, 2003
Posts: 2225
Location: Bedfordshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Again?? They've had roadworks between J14 and J15 twice already this year....
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perussell
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Joined: May 12, 2006
Posts: 292
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Was just looking at the transmitter map a few pages back again.
I just came back from a break in W Wales. Amazingly whilst I cannot seem to receive much of a signal in the M4 corridor (if anything) I had a signal 80% of the time once past Cardiff, even right out on the coast around Cardigan.
I wonder whether this is because there is less radio traffic in these areas or is it something else? I was surprised not least because I was still getting signals in the depths of some of the valleys so its not even as if I was sitting atop a mountain anywhere.
And this is the area where it seems most of the new transmitters are going in????????????????? |
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Retty
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Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Retty wrote: | There are some odd reports appearing and I'm not sure what to make of them.
One such congestion warning appeared at about 17:50 today. The main heading direction was Guildford to Bracknell and the subheading agreed with the main heading direction (which is unusual for the Mio C710 where it is more often than not usual for the 2 headings to disagree with each other in terms of direction).
The sub-heading read: Brookwood to Lightwater and the average speed of traffic was described as 12 mph. That's an east to west direction and this was confirmed by the graphical mapping of the jam.
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Hmm, same message again today - Brookwood (A324) to Lightwater (A319) Average speed 12 mph. The message appeared at about 16:45 yet there was no sign of any congestion at that time or immediately prior to the message appearing. |
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Eeeps
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Joined: Aug 07, 2007
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Retty wrote: | | Retty wrote: | There are some odd reports appearing and I'm not sure what to make of them.
One such congestion warning appeared at about 17:50 today. The main heading direction was Guildford to Bracknell and the subheading agreed with the main heading direction (which is unusual for the Mio C710 where it is more often than not usual for the 2 headings to disagree with each other in terms of direction).
The sub-heading read: Brookwood to Lightwater and the average speed of traffic was described as 12 mph. That's an east to west direction and this was confirmed by the graphical mapping of the jam.
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Hmm, same message again today - Brookwood (A324) to Lightwater (A319) Average speed 12 mph. The message appeared at about 16:45 yet there was no sign of any congestion at that time or immediately prior to the message appearing. |
Had a congestion warning on the A523 in Chesire yesterday between Bollington and Macclesfield at about 12:15. Almost no traffic at all. How wrong can you get?
Ian
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nbg
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Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 63
Location: Bristol
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| Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Eeeps wrote: |
Had a congestion warning on the A523 in Chesire yesterday between Bollington and Macclesfield at about 12:15. Almost no traffic at all. How wrong can you get?
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I'm sure that it could be a lot more wrong, but you've not mentioned what sort of congestion and the expected delay you were given. |
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perussell
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Regretfully, these comments are so very typical of my own experiences which have been documented elsewhere.
The ITIS info seems fine for long term roadworks, road closures etc. but the dynamic info i.e. for congestion which is variable by nature, seems hopelessly inaccurate.
There is no question in my mind that if my ITIS derived TMC on the satnav says there is a problem but the Trafficmaster Freeway which sits alongside it on the dash remains silent I just keep going ignoring the satnav. In these particular circumstances my TM F'way has NEVER been wrong i.e. there has never been a hold up when the Freeway suggested the road was clear but my current satnav suggested otherwise.
(The F'way does get it wrong sometimes though at other times either when the congestion is less than 2 miles or the delay is less than 5 minutes in which case it can clear very quickly)
I previously used a Garmin which derived its TMC from Trafficmaster and on more than 90% of occasions the 2 gadgets i.e. satnav and Freeway agreed.
I have no personal axe to grind with ITIS but I genuinely believe their traffic info as it relates to congestion to be verging on the hopeless. My current satnav now uses ITIS so I really do hope that the service improves. |
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Retty
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Posts: 336
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| perussell wrote: | Regretfully, these comments are so very typical of my own experiences which have been documented elsewhere.
The ITIS info seems fine for long term roadworks, road closures etc. but the dynamic info i.e. for congestion which is variable by nature, seems hopelessly inaccurate.
There is no question in my mind that if my ITIS derived TMC on the satnav says there is a problem but the Trafficmaster Freeway which sits alongside it on the dash remains silent I just keep going ignoring the satnav. In these particular circumstances my TM F'way has NEVER been wrong i.e. there has never been a hold up when the Freeway suggested the road was clear but my current satnav suggested otherwise.
(The F'way does get it wrong sometimes though at other times either when the congestion is less than 2 miles or the delay is less than 5 minutes in which case it can clear very quickly)
I previously used a Garmin which derived its TMC from Trafficmaster and on more than 90% of occasions the 2 gadgets i.e. satnav and Freeway agreed.
I have no personal axe to grind with ITIS but I genuinely believe their traffic info as it relates to congestion to be verging on the hopeless. My current satnav now uses ITIS so I really do hope that the service improves. |
I don't know. I think the ITIS congestion messages are usually pretty accurate and almost always accurate for motorways. There is huge room for improvement but phantom messages are, in my experience, pretty rare.
There is an element of luck though. If I take notice of a message I sometimes find that the congestion in question wasn't a problem (I see the motorway moving freely overhead whilst I'm stuck on an A or B road) and if I ignore a message I seem to be caught in the resulting jam. Sod's Law I suppose.
The biggest problem by far with ITIS is poor reception. I'm disappointed that the announced transmitter changes aren't likely to solve this problem and, for large parts of the south of England at least, it seems that TM does have the edge (if only the slight edge) in this regard. |
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GPS_fan
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2007
Posts: 2789
Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Retty wrote: | | I don't know. I think the ITIS congestion messages are usually pretty accurate and almost always accurate for motorways. There is huge room for improvement but phantom messages are, in my experience, pretty rare. |
...I thought you raised an issue with directional information, which you didn't remember seeing with TM TMC
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perussell
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't know. I think the ITIS congestion messages are usually pretty accurate and almost always accurate for motorways |
With all due respect you seem to be in a minority of one. I stand by my comments since I travel up and down the M4 from Wiltshire to W London on a fairly regular basis and the information, when I can get it and as far as congestion is concerned, is NEVER correct (and when I did use the M3 for a period it wasn't much better there either.
But....... I do agree with you reference your comments about reception. Since I changed my car I get almost nothing down the M4 but surprisingly when I was in W Wales recently the reception was stunning picking up signals in some of the remotest areas imaginable. |
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zzr1200
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Posts: 205
Location: Gloucestershire
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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I do J16 to J7 (and back) on the M4 everyday. I agree that reception is shocking on what is one of the busiest roads in the UK.
Also, when you do get signal, it misses a lot of congestion. I also often get a congested icon but no added time for it!!!!
On Monday I was driving down the M4 at 7.30am nr J7. I decided to test the information by changing my destination to the centre of London, all down the M4. Remember this is 7.30 on a Monday morning - no reports of any congestion at all. I find that rather strange but I must admit I did not do the journey to confirm either way. |
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Retty
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Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 336
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| GPS_fan wrote: | | Retty wrote: | | I don't know. I think the ITIS congestion messages are usually pretty accurate and almost always accurate for motorways. There is huge room for improvement but phantom messages are, in my experience, pretty rare. |
...I thought you raised an issue with directional information, which you didn't remember seeing with TM TMC |
Sure, according to the yardstick of incorrect direction reporting in the second line the TMC information is inaccurate. I don't remember seeing the problem with TM but it turns out, according to some people who are still using the pre November 06 software, that the problem does exist with TM.
The direction reporting bug is very annoying - especially so because you can't assume that it's always incorrect.
But phantom reports are rare in my experience. Thus why I reported 2 in the same week (which happen to describe the same phantom jam). |
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Retty
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| perussell wrote: | | Quote: | | I don't know. I think the ITIS congestion messages are usually pretty accurate and almost always accurate for motorways |
With all due respect you seem to be in a minority of one. I stand by my comments since I travel up and down the M4 from Wiltshire to W London on a fairly regular basis and the information, when I can get it and as far as congestion is concerned, is NEVER correct (and when I did use the M3 for a period it wasn't much better there either.
But....... I do agree with you reference your comments about reception. Since I changed my car I get almost nothing down the M4 but surprisingly when I was in W Wales recently the reception was stunning picking up signals in some of the remotest areas imaginable. |
I find it to be pretty accurate on major roads althogh I did receive another phantom jam report a couple of weeks ago on the M3 (a Sunday evening about 20:00 or so describing a crash between Camberley and Farnborough iirc) - there was no sign of such an incident.
The phantom reports are very rare in my experience. More common is a mention of congestion remaining after the congestion has cleared. I found this to be a problem with TM also.
The reception in some of the Welsh valleys is very good indeed. Mainly because ITIS uses a genuinely local transmitters for the signal. It is very disappointing that the recent announcement is probably going to make little change to large areas of the south of England which already struggle for reception. |
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