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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: M25 (anticlockwise approach) SPECS
Here's an interesting one....
On a recent trip along the M25, and approaching the Dartford Crossing, the following was noted:-
There USED to be SPECS at the exit, and approach to Dartford Crossing, due to roadworks. Those SPECS are no longer in place, as roadworks have finished, and the warnings are (rightly) no longer present on the database (TomTomOne). However, there are still two SPECS present, whcih is where this story unfolds!!
Approaching the Dartford Crossing (anticlockwise). M25 finishes, and changes to an A road, through the tunnels.
Road signs (red circle, white background) changes to 60mpg, where there is a SPECS present. Road sign advises "average speed area", and so does my sat nav. Slow down to 60mph. Fine. HOWEVER.. After a few hundred yards, a road sign is showing 50mph (no sign nor warning of SPECS), and then after another few hundred yards the speed is posted as 40mph, where shortly after there is another SPECS (just before the tolls), and a TomTom (PGPS) warning.
So.. ONE SPECS at 60mph zone entry, and another just after the 40mph zone. SURELY these cannot be working??, or would they average (doubtful) the speed between the 60 and 40 zone (60+50+40 =150/3 = 50m[average).
TomTom/PGPS offered no warnings of other cameras, and my "spacial awareness" logged no further cameras apart from the one at 60mph, and the other at 40mph.
We queried it on 9th December. I have chased it up.
RobBrady (and all those with any interest).
I made a call to "Le Tunnel" (DRC-Dartford River Crossing) roday, to see if THEY could offer any information on the SPECS, as per my original posting, and they advised these are the responsibility of the Highways Agency.
Called the Highways Agency, who advised the "Project Manager" covering that area is a Mr John Martin (01306 878437).
I called his office, and was politely redirected to a local liason manager, Martin Griffiths, who was unavailable.
I called back (as they had suggested) John Martins' office, and his secretary kindly put me through to John Martin (01306 878437).
I asked the question regarding the THREE speed zones (60mph, 50mph, and 40mph, covered by ONE SPECS at 60mph, and ONE SPECS at 40mph, asking "how that would work?" (my own understanding being that SPECS cameras cover an area of ONE SET SPEED).
What an "officious" person Mr John Martin is!!. His reply?? "We are not under ANY obligation to advise whether speed cameras (SPECS or otherwise) are working or not".
"Okay, I accept that you are not under obligation to advise whether any cams are working or not, and I do not wish to know whether they are working or not, but how can they possibly report over a THREE (60,50,40mph) zoned area?".
Again he reiterated "I've told you, we are under NO obligation to advise whether cameras are working or not, and that's all I have to say".
As I said, what an officious ***!!
So, Mr John Martin (01306 878437), of the Highways Agency, I think you deserve the Jobsworth of the Year Award!!.
Surely SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE must be able to confirm whether these cameras are "legal" or not?? (Remember, one SPECS at 60mph, then a 50mph zone, then a 40mph zone, THEN a SECOND SPECS camera.
Cheers
_________________ HTC OneX (IceCreamSandwich), HTC DesireHD (Gingerbread) Co-Pilot Premium, GoogleMaps+CamerAlert352
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Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject:
kevinx wrote:
Surely SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE must be able to confirm whether these cameras are "legal" or not?? (Remember, one SPECS at 60mph, then a 50mph zone, then a 40mph zone, THEN a SECOND SPECS camera.
Even were they configured to prosecute only if you exceeded the higher average speed, SPECS are NOT type approved for operation where a single pair are split over a zone that has differing speed limits.
Why these are in place I don't know, perhaps in advance of a speed limit change over that zone to bring it all into line or (I haven't checked the history) perhaps the zone has only recently had the limits changes causing this?. As the HA seem unwilling to answer the question I'll submit a FOA request and see what transpires.
Why people have to be so obnoxious when asking a simple answer such as that is any-ones guess, probably because they realise they have been caught with their pants down! _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: Jul 21, 2004 Posts: 2718 Location: Chelmsford, UK
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject:
I received a polite apology on Friday saying that they have resent the original enquiry to the team responsible for that project and marked it as urgent. _________________ Robert Brady
Surely SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE must be able to confirm whether these cameras are "legal" or not?? (Remember, one SPECS at 60mph, then a 50mph zone, then a 40mph zone, THEN a SECOND SPECS camera.
Even were they configured to prosecute only if you exceeded the higher average speed, SPECS are NOT type approved for operation where a single pair are split over a zone that has differing speed limits.
Why these are in place I don't know, perhaps in advance of a speed limit change over that zone to bring it all into line or (I haven't checked the history) perhaps the zone has only recently had the limits changes causing this?. As the HA seem unwilling to answer the question I'll submit a FOA request and see what transpires.
Why people have to be so obnoxious when asking a simple answer such as that is any-ones guess, probably because they realise they have been caught with their pants down!
Cheers Darren,
Yes, I think obnoxious would be a more fitting description for the chap I spoke with.
Believe me, I was polite throughout, but he just would not budge on the "We are under no obligation to advise whether the cameras are working or not", although that was NOT my question to him, but a query regarding the three speed areas, and one pair!
Should you wish to call him to verify, then you have the number.
Cheers again, and Happy New Year to you and the team.
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