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jcjeffe Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 17
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: Ferry Crossing |
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From what I can see TomTom and the other route planning software seem to regard a river crossing by ferry as a bridge allowing zero time for the crossing. The quickest route from the end of the M5 to Dartmouth uses a ferry crossing of the Dart.
I selected "Alternative Route" and put a block on the A379 road to Torquay road and was re routed via Buckfast and Totnes. This route was seven miles shorter and took one minute longer. So I looked at the details of the route just to cross the river. A route calculated from Kingswear via the ferry to the centre of Dartmouth is less than a mile and is timed to take one minute.
Even though TomTom is set to warn about tolls it does not mention the ferry and its toll. No time allowance is made for waiting for the ferry, loading the ferry, the river crossing and unloading at the other side. All this is going to add a minimum of 10 minutes to the journey and in the summer far longer. So in reality this "Fastest Route" using the ferry will going to take considerably longer than Tom Tom says it will take.
Both Google and Autoroute also allow zero time for the crossing but Autoroute does at least inform you that a ferry crossing is involved.
Chris |
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Border_Collie Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | No time allowance is made for waiting for the ferry, loading the ferry, the river crossing and unloading at the other side. | This would be impossible to include in the mapping. Peak summer day, long queues v. off peak, you arrive first and only a couple of cars crossing. |
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jcjeffe Occasional Visitor
Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 17
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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If TomTom is going to use a route using a Toll Road you get a red warning screen asking if you want to use this route. A ferry crossing is also a route where a Toll has to be paid so I would expect a similar warning, which in this case you do not get. You obviously cannot factor in a time for the crossing but if there was a warning you could make your own decision. The trouble is that many people will blindly follow TomTom without consulting a map and it will come as a shock that they have what is possible a long queue for a ferry.
Chris |
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PaulB2005 Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006 Posts: 9323 Location: Durham, UK
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | The trouble is that many people will blindly follow TomTom without consulting a map and it will come as a shock that they have what is possible a long queue for a ferry. |
Sadly this is the mistake many users make, and i only blame the user for this. Sat Nav should be used as a guide and only as such. With any journey the route should be calculated in advance and checked for details such as ferry crossings / tolls etc regardless of what the Sat Nav says. Incidently my i3 doesn't warn me that there is a Toll to pay at the Thames Tunnel / Bridge Crossing at Dartford. Yes some systems may warn you that a Ferry Crossing has a toll but not all data on all systems is totally 100% accuracte and never will be.
Sat Nav is not a replacment for planning or thinking. Too many people switch their Sat Nav on and then blindly follow instructions. |
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gardenshed Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 05, 2007 Posts: 466
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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i just selected avoid toll roads works for me |
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PaulB2005 Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006 Posts: 9323 Location: Durham, UK
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Selecting Avoid Toll Roads works for me too. |
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Border_Collie Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | A ferry crossing is also a route where a Toll has to be paid |
It's not a Toll, it's a fare.
Do you get a warning if you are using the Channel Tunnel? Nope. And TomTom, or any of the others, won't take into account you have to arrive at least 30 minutes before departure or when they brought in a 'self check in' and the queues were almost back to the M20, or when operation 'stack' is put in place.
I use it to guide me from A to B, an electronic map, I check my route and if it's not to my liking, I avoid part of route or add a via. |
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Skippy Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Lost_Property wrote: | It's not a Toll, it's a fare. |
Yeah, wot evah
If the GPS unit just called it a toll then it would be fine. "The route calculated has a toll to pay at (river crossing name) - do you want to use this route or recalculate"
Imagine it was the middle of the night and you had a fair idea that the boats would have stopped for the night, you could just recalculate. Otherwise you would go down a dead end.
As for reviewing each route befrore driving it, I used to do this time but these days life's too short. I just program it and trust it to take me there. The odd time I get a wacky route but I just deal with it and go on my way. _________________ Gone fishing! |
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Border_Collie Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Lost_Property wrote:
It's not a Toll, it's a fare.
Yeah, wot evah |
I actually wrote my comments for the poster, why you would have to make a comment like that on what I said I've no idea. If you think I have given incorrect information, by all means point it out so both myself and the poster have the correct information. |
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Skippy Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Lost_Property wrote: | I actually wrote my comments for the poster, why you would have to make a comment like that on what I said I've no idea. |
Your comment was posted in an open forum therefore inviting discussion. I made the comment "Yeah, wot evah" with the rolling eyes icon because I think your comment was somewhat pedantic. ;)
Lost_Property wrote: | If you think I have given incorrect information, by all means point it out so both myself and the poster have the correct information. |
OK, I'm always willing help out!
The Merriam Webster dictionary defines a toll as:
1 : a tax or fee paid for some liberty or privilege (as of passing over a highway or bridge)
2 : compensation for services rendered: as a : a charge for transportation
Therefore, a part of a route that you have to pay to traverse (be it a bridge, tunnel, motorway, congestion charge zone or ferry) could be broadly defined in the English language as a "toll" and it would be understood by the user.
Hope that helps. _________________ Gone fishing! |
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gardenshed Frequent Visitor
Joined: Jul 05, 2007 Posts: 466
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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see what you started here jcjeffe |
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Border_Collie Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 2543 Location: Rainham, Kent. England.
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Even though TomTom is set to warn about tolls it does not mention the ferry and its toll. |
Quote: | A ferry crossing is also a route where a Toll has to be paid |
Quote: | It's not a Toll, it's a fare. |
Quote: | Oxford ENGLISH Dictionary.
toll
• noun 1 a charge payable to use a bridge or road or (N. Amer.) for a long-distance telephone call. 2 the number of deaths or casualties arising from an accident, disaster, etc. 3 the cost or damage resulting from something.
fare
• noun 1 the money a passenger on public transport has to pay. 2 a range of food.
• verb 1 perform in a specified way in a particular situation or period. 2 archaic travel.
public transport
• noun buses, trains, and other forms of transport that are available to the public, charge set fares, and run on fixed routes. |
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Skippy Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: 24/06/2003 00:22:12 Posts: 2946 Location: Escaped to the Antipodies! 36.83°S 174.75°E
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Lost_Property wrote: | Oxford ENGLISH Dictionary. |
Ahh, but that's a British dictionary. As we all know, the Americans invented English so the Merriam Webster definition is obviously the better one to use. _________________ Gone fishing! |
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neil01 Frequent Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005 Posts: 902 Location: Leeds
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes I think that many of the problems are magnified by the lack of understanding by the software companies of how people drive.
We have all these fancy options, but how often are they all or nothing. I do not see the problem being due to the speed limits or whether a toll or a fare - no doubt someone would argue that it isn't even a road!
Until the systems become sophisticated enough to allow the user to select which 'whatever you want to call anything which requires a payment to proceed' individually, we are probably stuck with generated routes which do not meet some users requirements.
While not saying that it is perfect, I try to avoid ALL charges when driving other than those I specifically know about and am prepared to pay. In those cases I use waypoints or intermediate stops at the 'charge' location and rely upon the system to re-calculate the route once I am at the other side
I have to agree with one of the previous posters sentiment about not blindly following the routes generated - we never seemed to have these problems in the days of maps. However, to my knowledge no SatNav system is just a replacement for your car atlas - it is also a replacement for the person using it. As a result it is often either a source of confusion (and sometimes stupid routes) for those who rely totally upon it, and great frustration for those who know exactly the route they need to take and simply want something to help them stick to it - yet it is so difficult (sometimes impossible?) to give the satnav the route you want to take. |
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