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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Help... TomTom's own Cameras, to Custom POI's - possible???
Right folks...
Recently got a Tom Tom Go 720.
Used to use CoPilot on my Pocket PC in the past, so every now and then I'd legitimately BUY the monthly Database from here, for trips to Scotland etc, as I only have an occasional use.
So, today, I set about to once again buy the £2 monthly database, legitimately, correctly, and responsibly.
Only to find the biggest shock of my life... you CAN'T now.
(So rant time - please SKIP down the the line all in Block capitals if you want to avoid my views on this, and cut to the question, as it were)
I have now sat and ploughed through the thread on the subject, long since locked it seems, and despite some valid points in there, nevertheless, I find this to be the most disgraceful thing this site could EVER do!
I am disgusted by this change - especially as not only do I think it will do NOTHING to cut down on the piracy it was allegedly meant to help with, I think it will INCREASE it on the basis that those that WERE happy to support this site by paying £2 as and when infrequently required, will NOT now pay the £19 if they were two or three time a year users like I was (hence why only now I see the monthly option has been stopped).
So I think the logic was fundamentally and comprehensively flawed and warped.
PLEASE....
Before you bite my head of all, consider...
I am a friendly, honest, decent member of this site, that has not had cause to post before now (as the count shows), that simply came on here every now and then, and happily PAID for a monthly update on those odd occasions I was heading to Scotland etc - a couple, or maybe three times a year most, as the mods should be able to see from my past downloads.
In all regards, I was a perfect member - no trouble, no hassle, honest as the day is long, and NEVER even so much as shared the file with an immediate family member as a one off, like I suspect 'some' may have done.
I simply paid my money, when the file was needed, happy as that, and happy to do so.
Now, whist the whole purpose of this site was "the collective benefit of all", I understand there are costs involved - considerable in fact, in running a site like this.
Nevertheless, whilst the copyright rests with PGPSW, let's ALWAYS remember that this is OUR work in nearly all respects - at least in terms of the creation and reporting of the data.
But ASSIMILATING that data is the role of PGPSW, hence why it is only right and fair that a SMALL cost should apply for those that want to download it.
Now again, I remind you - the purpose of this site was, as I understand it back in the day, "for the collective good", NOT for profit.
Covering costs is FINE. But profit... er come on, this is our work and effort here.
So it is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that this site should be allowed to cover all its costs.
OK... so where am I going with this...? That the point that 'some' people, even a prolific amount if the word is to be believed, download it for free by other nefarious means, is actually neither here nor their, PROVIDED that those who do it by PROPER means like me, manage to cover the costs of running this site.
As long as the costs are met by those who DO pay, then if others gain it for free, they are to be held in low regard, but it should not matter much anyhow in the grand scheme of things. The point is that if those who DO pay, cover the COSTS, then that should be enough for the people who run this site. It should NOT be about profit.
And I fully believe that those who would ALWAYS pay, whether by yearly, or as and when, like I did, would still always be enough to cover running costs, irrespective of how prevalent pirated versions became.
Even if I knew a pirated version was relatively easy to obtain, I would ALWAYS still PAY my money here, to obtain the latest proper version - and I am sure there is enough of a user base of the same mind, that costs would always be covered.
So, I am disgusted at this decision, that I feel is ill thought out, and irrespective of what ANY of you say, WILL cause financial loss for some, compared to the previous regime (mods feel free to report to the members how often I downloaded the monthly option, to prove it).
And I am sorry, but whether "it is still great value, a yearly sub" or not, is neither here nor there is it...
As someone who downloads maybe three times a year, then my previous cost was £6 to £8.
Now, "amazing value or not", I still have to pay £19. The fact that I get "more" is utterly irrelevant - it is a 'more' that I do not need. It's the EXACT same thing Supermarkets do by moving to bigger cartons, and bars do by moving to bigger measures, or phasing out smaller options - and when they do that, we go MAD for their dishonesty. But when the same is done here... well I'll leave that thought hanging...
So I am foaming with you - a site I quietly held in such high regard, stooping so low.
In the locked thread it DOES say that this is "not a 'for profit' con", and that the affect this policy has on piracy "will be monitored and if it proves it has little or no effect (or as suspect, actually a WORSE effect), then there is no reason why the monthly option should not be re-instated".
So... as it has been quite a while now, and I suspect that it has had little effect on piracy, or that if piracy has dropped, this is unlikely to be the actual reason, then would PGPSW be willing to reconsider re-instating the monthly option?
Comments please mods...
OK - MY REQUEST FOR TOM TOM HELP NOW HOWEVER:
If after reading (or maybe even just skipping all that), any of you nice sort feel like helping me out, please read on.
Now that I cannot pay PGPSW for a monthly subscription, and I am NOT going to pay the yearly - I don't NEED that much, and even if I did, the Tom Tom Plus package with other features would then have to be considered anyway, then I am stuck.
SO.... as my Tom Tom comes with a one off version of Safety Cameras already installed (see how loyal I tried to be to this site - even with a free install, I STILL was happy to PAY money to you anyway - god, talk about biting the hand that feeds you guys!), then is there any way for me to 'take' the Tom Tom database, however it is installed on the device, and instead convert this over to a standard "custom POI set" so that I can set it up with my normal icons etc, and images on the screen.
Is this at all possible, or with the change of policy by PGPSW, am I now shafted and left out to dry.
Sorry, but as a loyal, if infrequent member, I am incredibly bitter by all of this.
Indeed I am happy to even use the current most recent Database I BOUGHT and paid for, but I now want to move to "by speed" categories with the new symbols, as opposed to "by category" as my current file is - so I can't even use the current bought and paid for one for my purpose alas.
I really feel like you are rewarding loyalty and legitimacy and support, with shocking treatment and disregard.
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15145 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject:
the action taken has proven to reduce piracy so that point is invalid.
Quote:
Nevertheless, whilst the copyright rests with PGPSW, let's ALWAYS remember that this is OUR work in nearly all respects - at least in terms of the creation and reporting of the data.
if there was any of YOUR work in the database then you will have been offered a free lifetime subscription in jan/feb 2006 (2 years ago) when the charge was introduced.
as you mentioned yourself, this has been 'done to death' already in the appropriate forum so i doubt there will be much more input from the rest of the team.
Joined: Jun 04, 2005 Posts: 19991 Location: West and Southwest London
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject:
To get it out of the way quickly... I am a loyal supporter of the PGPSW database, but I too disagreed with the decision to scrap the £2 / month option (In fact I still fundamentally disagree with charging for the d.base at all), but that's been done to death.
Moving rapidly on to your questions...
No, there is no way (that anyone has found so far), of converting the TomTom "own brand" database back to an ordinary POI category or categories.
However, with latest software you are not limited to the single "bong" but can use any of the sounds on the "sound effects" page and by extension, that means you can now use ANY sound or voice alert (since you can now add your own sounds to that page).
I don't know of any way to change the on-screen icons.
Alternatively, if you would rather use the out of date PGPSW data that you already have, I'm sure PGPSW would not object to you splitting it up into speed-zoned sets yourself. A utility like POI Edit should be able to do that fairly easily, with a bit of work on your part.
the action taken has proven to reduce piracy so that point is invalid.
Quote:
Nevertheless, whilst the copyright rests with PGPSW, let's ALWAYS remember that this is OUR work in nearly all respects - at least in terms of the creation and reporting of the data.
if there was any of YOUR work in the database then you will have been offered a free lifetime subscription in jan/feb 2006 (2 years ago) when the charge was introduced.
as you mentioned yourself, this has been 'done to death' already in the appropriate forum so i doubt there will be much more input from the rest of the team.
thanks
MaFt
I never, not for one single solitary second, claimed that MY own work was included - if it was anything less than apparent I was referring to the generic "we" - as in we the people, as opposed to you the mods, then I am amazed you missed it.
Notwithstanding anything, your reply is terse and dismissive.
And suffice to say, that's your absolute right.
But if that's what you think of, and how you wish to treat, reasonable members, then again, that is your prerogative. But nice that we know it's your opinion, methinks!
Aside from which, you DID answer the question, whether you meant to dismiss me or not.
You clearly indicated that you have no intention of reversing this disgusting decision.
Bully for you. I wish I had the power of God to use (and ABUSE) as you do.
Oh but wait, what right do I have to even whimper, murmur, or make a sound... I'm just a previously paying customer...
Sorry, I'm being offish, but done to death or not at the time, I don't seem to recall getting word about it, despite being the Newsletter Subscriber.
So its the FIRST I have heard of it, and the FIRST chance I have had to input on this.
Again though, what right do I have to even whimper, murmur, or make a sound, let alone have a VOICE.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject:
Why not pop over to TomTom's forum and ask them how you might breach their copyright and convert their data? You can't because they don't offer you a forum to vent your misinformed opinion in do they!
It is two years since we made this change and we have no desire to enter into further discussion on this subject.
We have an excellent product, built upon very much more than just the submissions. We have invested a HUGE amount of time and effort into producing this database and ensuring it is concise and accurate. Were it that easy then there would be more doing so but it is not. Had we not been forced to remove the monthly option as a direct result of piracy then we would not have, it was not a decision we took lightly.
The simple fact is it HAS reduced piracy massively and so will remain. Were we able to protect our data in another way we would have been delighted to do so but sadly there was no other option.
If we had not taken action then we would have had to stop completely, it is as simple as that. _________________ Darren Griffin
Last edited by Darren on Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
To get it out of the way quickly... I am a loyal supporter of the PGPSW database, but I too disagreed with the decision to scrap the £2 / month option (In fact I still fundamentally disagree with charging for the d.base at all), but that's been done to death.
Moving rapidly on to your questions...
No, there is no way (that anyone has found so far), of converting the TomTom "own brand" database back to an ordinary POI category or categories.
However, with latest software you are not limited to the single "bong" but can use any of the sounds on the "sound effects" page and by extension, that means you can now use ANY sound or voice alert (since you can now add your own sounds to that page).
I don't know of any way to change the on-screen icons.
Alternatively, if you would rather use the out of date PGPSW data that you already have, I'm sure PGPSW would not object to you splitting it up into speed-zoned sets yourself. A utility like POI Edit should be able to do that fairly easily, with a bit of work on your part.
Thanks for replying mate, despite my rant - also for some useful info for me there to take from what you said.
I might give the POIEdit thing a try like you say, as I am not that worried about it not being the most recent info - I just want to get it into the right categories now - so thanks for that.
Can I abuse your generosity and knowledge even more though, as you seem quite knowledgeable...
Currently, I have my old style, "by category", Mobile, Fixed, Specs, etc Pocketgps POI's set up and set to warn in TomTom (I am two days old to TT, so bear with me here **).
I suspect I ALSO have the inbuilt TT Safety Cameras set up too.
Can you shed light on things for me, what does TT's OWN Safety Camera Datebase actually 'do', if I was to just stick with them instead, given that I have them (even though, I was prepared to PAY PGPSW anyway for a monthly one - for Pete's sake Mods, are you SO blind that you can't see it... Piracy MIGHT be down, but if you are driving people AWAY from buying, then INCOME is also down.... ah but wait... shoot me for the fool that I am , you make MORE now by those others that DON'T drift away, who instead pay a YEARLY subscription - NICE one.... magic.... Asda and Tesco would be mighty proud of your profiteering - sorry, er, marketeering, as this is not about profit is it now, mmmm!).
So back on track, if I forgo my custom POI's from here, and use only the TT ones, how do they 'work' mate?
What do they actually do? show an image or icon? Flash with a countdown distance indication, let you set the distance etc?
I know I could RTFM, but my problem here is that I have likely had BOTH set these past couple of days, so I am not sure what is doing what.
So I'd be grateful for any info you can give on what TT's OWN Safety Cameras feature does, and shows etc.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject:
shadamehr wrote:
Can you shed light on things for me, what does TT's OWN Safety Camera Datebase actually 'do', if I was to just stick with them instead, given that I have them (even though, I was prepared to PAY PGPSW anyway for a monthly one - for Pete's sake Mods, are you SO blind that you can't see it... Piracy MIGHT be down, but if you are driving people AWAY from buying, then INCOME is also down.... ah but wait... shoot me for the fool that I am , you make MORE now by those others that DON'T drift away, who instead pay a YEARLY subscription - NICE one.... magic.....
You must be blessed to know so much with such little information! The numbers of subscriber were declining because of piracy, the move to annual subscription has reduced piracy and INCREASED the numbers of subscribers.
We moved to protect the service and our business. We would be fools had we not.
We realise that some users would be disadvantaged but we live in an imperfect world. It is also worthy of note that no other service offers a monthly option.
As I said earlier, why not use TomTom's forums and ask them about their service? After all, a multi-million pound operation like they are could easily afford to run a support forum couldn't they! _________________ Darren Griffin
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15145 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:
shadamehr wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Nevertheless, whilst the copyright rests with PGPSW, let's ALWAYS remember that this is OUR work in nearly all respects - at least in terms of the creation and reporting of the data.
if there was any of YOUR work in the database then you will have been offered a free lifetime subscription in jan/feb 2006 (2 years ago) when the charge was introduced.
I never, not for one single solitary second, claimed that MY own work was included - if it was anything less than apparent I was referring to the generic "we" - as in we the people, as opposed to you the mods, then I am amazed you missed it.
sorry, but the part where you implied the data should be free because it was 'OUR' (your?) data is what i was referring to. in fact, if you re-read my post those who's data it was were given access to it free of charge for life. as were those who donated financially to the site and as are those now who submit data to the site.
so, i repeat my point, those who's data it is - the REAL collective 'OUR' - have free access to THEIR data.
everyone else can pay for the data and personally i feel thst £19 per year is very good value for such an accurate database especially when garmin's terrible effort is more than double with no chance to gain it free for life. tomtom's is around the same price but is incredibly poor in it's content - choose whichever you wish to use. it's a free country.
Can you shed light on things for me, what does TT's OWN Safety Camera Datebase actually 'do', if I was to just stick with them instead, given that I have them (even though, I was prepared to PAY PGPSW anyway for a monthly one - for Pete's sake Mods, are you SO blind that you can't see it... Piracy MIGHT be down, but if you are driving people AWAY from buying, then INCOME is also down.... ah but wait... shoot me for the fool that I am , you make MORE now by those others that DON'T drift away, who instead pay a YEARLY subscription - NICE one.... magic.....
You must be blessed to know so much with such little information! The numbers of subscriber were declining because of piracy, the move to annual subscription has reduced piracy and INCREASED the numbers of subscribers.
We moved to protect the service and our business. We would be fools had we not.
We realise that some users would be disadvantaged but we live in an imperfect world. It is also worthy of note that no other service offers a monthly option.
As I said earlier, why not use TomTom's forums and ask them about their service? After all, a multi-million pound operation like they are could easily afford to run a support forum couldn't they! Of course they don't but that does not mean we have to suffer bleating here about a service you haven't used since 2006 and have never contributed to anyway.
Wow...
I'm both amazed and staggered.
For the actual Editor.... head man, main honcho, to come out so brazenly, so condescendingly and so clearly slate and degrade one of his former/potential ongoing paying customers... AMAZING!
Given the factual statements that you come out with about me that are so very wrong, you have little right to talk to me about being "blessed to know so much with so little information". You seem to know so LITTLE with So MUCH actual information to hand about me and my subscriptions, and yet still get it so badly wrong, and nastily so towards me!
"Suffer bleating"
Class, so stating complaints is now called "Suffer Bleating" Cool what a site!
"A Service I have not used since 2006..."
Wow, I don't even think I had JOINED back that far, but whether I did or not, the most recent Database I downloaded was around August or September 2007, sadly just before you made this decision, and there were various other ones during the course of that year.
So TWO things here... if you had not received money from me since 2006, you're implying I relinquish my right to maybe ask a question on here. Again Class, what a site.
WORSE though - it's also totally FALSE anyway, as you happily received MONEY off me right up to August or September 2007. Well put it like this matey, that's what my last download was, and like I said before, I haven't EVER done anything to get the database except pay YOU!
What a disgusting disgusting thing to say to me then.
"...and have never contributed to in any way".
Disgraceful. It's not like I'm a secret Labour donor giving you millions, but nevertheless, paying money up to Aug 2007 constitutes "not contributing in any way" ???
For Christ's sake what sort of a malicious, mod sided, god dictated site are you running here - if you can bandy all these UNTRUE and factually WRONG things about at me???
What am I - something that unfortunately got stuck on the sole of your shoe??? I'm starting to feel that way.
It's quality - were it not so sad.
I HOPE my own complaints, WELL explained WHY I am posting them now (the FIRST chance I have ever had), were not SO bad as to seem like I am a low-life.
BUT... even if my behaviour IS felt to be so low by you, I have NEVER ever known the Senior Editor or Moderator of ANY Forum, 'stoop to the same level' if that is how you feel I have behaved.
I appreciate my views might be outspoken.
But Darren, I'm just a statistic, a number, a nobody, generic member... you could almost say it is to be expected of me (not that I am even agreeing I HAVE been so badly behaved).
But for the Editor to so clearly show his own contempt... And so WRONG and incorrect at that with his statements... Well like I said, I am staggered.
QUITE ASIDE from the fact that you have elected to quote ME, on a section CLEARLY aimed at another member who HAD chose of his own free will, to help me.
I am lost as to why you bring that up.
Or, forgive me, are you saying here:
"We will happily take your money without second thought, whilst you say nothing and do not complain. BUT, as soon as your money stops, or you start complaining, we will show our disregard for you, AND we will all but say, you no longer have the right to even ask other members on this site for help..."
That's NOT being pedantic, or creative with the wording - that's ABSOLUTELY exactly what it feels like right now.
ABSOLUTELY what it sounds like you are saying.
Darren... I have my views, I whinged my whinge, I griped my gripe - let's remember this is my first chance to do so, yet your contemptuous post for me does nothing to cover THOSE items I mentioned etc.
Nevertheless, it should be more than clear from an educated sort as yourself, that overall, it's done, happened, I (me) can't make the better of it, or do anything to input into this bad decision as it is now closed... so my bit is nearly all said and got of my chest etc, and I have now MOVED ON, to using this forum for what it is meant - support and help...
But no.... that's not good enough for you... You have to respond as you did.
Well, like I say, as Super Mod you are sure to play god and ban me, and amend or delete this, my post.
But let me just clarify again.
1. I happily passed money your way in the past (right through to AUG 2007 at least mate, NOT way back 2006 as you claim), and you were happy to receive it back then, as I didn't complain on the site.
2. I then today complained about something I felt was bad, at the first opportunity available to ME to do so, given that I am an occasional visitor.
3. I made it clear that further money would likely no longer be forthcoming as a result of this policy change.
4. (Let me keep it truthful, for fairness sake, so yes I need to be honest and confess that): Yes, I then complained some more even.
5. I am then berated (none of my other points even being deemed worthy of mention or answer), and all but told, go elsewhere for support - Try TomTom, as well as having a raft of factually UNTRUE statements said about me.
No, I am not being creative - that's EXACTLY what it feels like to me.
Or did I miss something?
So, I suspect, if your previous reply was any indication of your worth, that you will take the easy option and just ban me, and delete my post, or one or the other.
If so, enjoy your Horlicks - as the advert states, it's clearly the only thing that allows you to sleep at night if so.
On the other hand, we can agree to disagree, accept that the policy has been decided, and leave it at that as far as us two are concerned, sensible grown men, and you can allow this thread to go back to the person that was helping me, and back on topic.
It's up to you...
But maybe pause for a minute and see this from MY point of view.
Certainly right now I am LIVID to be told I am of no worth not having contributed in any way since 2006, when you received money off me right up to Aug 2007.
So... two sensible grown men, agreeing to disagree, move on, and progress... or Super Mod, playing God...
Oh and one other thing you might want to consider...
Check the TIME of my post...
And as the actual posting time is taken from the time submitted, NOT started if I recall correct, it should be clear that my first long reply up above was started BEFORE TWO of the mod posts, one from Darren, and one from MaFt.
So remember here, you refer to your previous posts, but I had not even SEEN the 'previous two posts' you both refer to, when I started to compose, and thus therefore send, my 'first reply, which hits the board AFTER your two.
On the board, it is listed AFTER your two.
But given the time I clicked to start a new post, then eventually submitted it, it is a post actually written BEFORE I had seen yours.
Let's not forget that when again being so quick to judge me guys... You missed that fact (understandably perhaps, but check the times to see what I mean).
It's listed AFTER yours but was started, and thus written BEFORE yours ever actually existed as it were, if you follow what I am trying to explain here.
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14893 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject:
shadamehr wrote:
So back on track, if I forgo my custom POI's from here, and use only the TT ones, how do they 'work' mate?
What do they actually do? show an image or icon? Flash with a countdown distance indication, let you set the distance etc?
I know I could RTFM, but my problem here is that I have likely had BOTH set these past couple of days, so I am not sure what is doing what.
So I'd be grateful for any info you can give on what TT's OWN Safety Cameras feature does, and shows etc.
Cheers mate.
They 'work' the same as the ones from here - they give you a hoot, or a beep, or a bong and flash an icon on screen as you approach them.
They have a few disadvantages against the pgpsw ones......
There is no "table" or whatever telling you what they are - when I drove past a redlight camera today, I saw an icon like a set of traffic lights, plus a speed limit sign. When I drove past a Gatso camera, I got a gatso symbol and a speed limit sign. When I drove past something else, I got a tripod sign and a speed limit sign. I dunno what each really was supposed to be, because I got those combinations for what I thought were different camera types.
They only show up as you approach them. You can't browse your map and see them.
They are inaccurate - BADLY.
As a supporter of the pgpsw camera database, I take exception to your endless ranting. I got free membership from submitting data ("MY" data) before the charge was introduced. I continued and to this day still continue to contribute "MY" data to the database whenever the opportunity arises.
Although I too occasionally travel to Scotland, I am incapable of collecting any data from that beautiful place. Furthermore, I am personally incapable of compiling a database for this purpose, even less capable of producing it in many different formats to be used on many different satnav devices. I am quite happy to think that the small number of people who receive funding from the site's operations (not any MODs, I hasten to add - you over estimate our status, we're just here to stop you swearing or abusing the site etc) thoroughly deserve it. I was entirely willing to pay when the charging was introduced and had a great surprise when told I could have a free membership in recognition of my contributing MY data - I was doing so entirely voluntarily, with the sole purpose of improving the database for my own benefit (which as a side effect benefited others, including you, EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS YOU NEVER PULLED YOUR WEIGHT).
Go away now. Join TomTom for a little more than pgpsw. Get yourself caught by a camera which is in "MY" data, but not in TomTom's. Then come back and tell us it happened. Until then, keep your fingers off your keyboard, I've seen far too much from you.
I see you've posted whilst I've been typing. It's a shame you hadn't seen my previous paragraph first and done us all a favour by abstaining from more drivel. _________________ Dennis
So back on track, if I forgo my custom POI's from here, and use only the TT ones, how do they 'work' mate?
What do they actually do? show an image or icon? Flash with a countdown distance indication, let you set the distance etc?
I know I could RTFM, but my problem here is that I have likely had BOTH set these past couple of days, so I am not sure what is doing what.
So I'd be grateful for any info you can give on what TT's OWN Safety Cameras feature does, and shows etc.
Cheers mate.
They 'work' the same as the ones from here - they give you a hoot, or a beep, or a bong and flash an icon on screen as you approach them.
They have a few disadvantages against the pgpsw ones......
There is no "table" or whatever telling you what they are - when I drove past a redlight camera today, I saw an icon like a set of traffic lights, plus a speed limit sign. When I drove past a Gatso camera, I got a gatso symbol and a speed limit sign. When I drove past something else, I got a tripod sign and a speed limit sign. I dunno what each really was supposed to be, because I got those combinations for what I thought were different camera types.
They only show up as you approach them. You can't browse your map and see them.
They are inaccurate - BADLY.
Thanks for replying - though your later "please, shake yourself lose from my shoe, ergh, how did that muck get on there" dismissal of me, rather makes it a wasted gesture? Why so kindly help me, then so disgustingly later dismiss and degrade me? Why spoil your genuine kindly help with such an ending?
DennisN wrote:
As a supporter of the pgpsw camera database, I take exception to your endless ranting. I got free membership from submitting data ("MY" data) before the charge was introduced. I continued and to this day still continue to contribute "MY" data to the database whenever the opportunity arises.
As a menial, unimportant, so clearly irrelevant, worthless piece of rubbish you and all the other Admin/Mods, seem so happy to think of me, and PUBLICLY state, nevertheless, as such a worthless piece of rubbish that I am (your view, not mine), I too take exception. I take exception to your comments of my endless ranting. If nothing else, my last post clearly stated it was NOT endless, I long ago wanted it draw to a close, and thought it was when I moved on to the dialogue with the helpful other user. But sadly that was before three mods had had a chance to belittle me - oh the power you wield... how wonderful for you all.
DennisN wrote:
Although I too occasionally travel to Scotland, I am incapable of collecting any data from that beautiful place. Furthermore, I am personally incapable of compiling a database for this purpose, even less capable of producing it in many different formats to be used on many different satnav devices. I am quite happy to think that the small number of people who receive funding from the site's operations (not any MODs, I hasten to add - you over estimate our status, we're just here to stop you swearing or abusing the site etc) thoroughly deserve it. I was entirely willing to pay when the charging was introduced and had a great surprise when told I could have a free membership in recognition of my contributing MY data - I was doing so entirely voluntarily, with the sole purpose of improving the database for my own benefit (which as a side effect benefited others, including you, EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS YOU NEVER PULLED YOUR WEIGHT).
Most of which I stated exactly myself in my very first post, so what new info are you actually ADDING here? And "I never pulled my weight" What the blooming heck are you on about...? I'm a paid member... not an Admin or anything else... When I was in a previous job role with input and dialogue with the North East Safety Camera Partnership, I was specifically asked by them not to speculate on, or give info out on, advance possible sites in my region, as the info I was receiving back then, was subject to certain confidential privilege. As it happens, in reality it was so poor, the actual members on here had a better measure of things - but nevertheless, what an utterly STUPID comment to make. Quite aside from the fact that the reason I PAID was clearly because I never get any sites in first so paying is the correct thing to then do...
So what are you saying here... that all those members of your site that DON'T get a site in, are NOT PULLING THERE WEIGHT?
Well I'm sure they'll be overjoyed to hear that after receiving all their hard earned cash for years, you nevertheless feel they do nothing but "fail to pull their weight" by not contributing new sites first.
Wow!
DennisN wrote:
Go away now. Join TomTom for a little more than pgpsw. Get yourself caught by a camera which is in "MY" data, but not in TomTom's. Then come back and tell us it happened. Until then, keep your fingers off your keyboard, I've seen far too much from you.
Ah, and yet you state earlier I give you Mods too much status and credit... I think not... from what your last paragraph there just told me to go forth and do, I think God Himself just spoke, don't you? You certainly sound like it.
DennisN wrote:
I see you've posted whilst I've been typing. It's a shame you hadn't seen my previous paragraph first and done us all a favour by abstaining from more drivel.
Of course. Because we all know, if it comes from such a worthless little piece of refuse as you imply I am, it is "drivel"
But if it comes from a God (oops, sorry, I meant a MOD), then it is automatically, unquestionably, don't dare argue the point, perfectly valid, reasonable, and factual information.
Even if, as my posts earlier on relation to Darren showed, they are completely factually incorrect.
I think I see the picture forming here all to well, don't worry....
(And just again to clarify in case of any new posts... At the point i started typing this, ONLY Darren's post I quote was on the board. Any further additions prior to this getting added have NOT, obviously been seen by me).
A request to ALL the Mods/Admins/Editors or whoever...
Do me a favour please to save any further hassle for ANY of us.
Either play Super God Mod, and be incredibly petty and childish now, and ban me out of pettiness and get it over and done with.
Or alternatively, PLEASE stop treating me like a horrible piece of something nasty that got on the bottom of your shoe.
And then let me do EXACTLY what you ask, and desist from this 'drivel' and concentrate on what I THOUGHT I had already progressed to a while ago...
Using the site for it's intended purpose, support and help from other members.
So please - you choose... petty and childish, Super Mod God, and ban me, and at least it's done.
Or let me shut up complaining (your driving me to it with your constant abuse of me), and let me get on with normal posts free of any more complaints etc.
But please decide which real soon, as this in the meantime is shocking.
So men about it, agree to disagree, and move on...
Or Super God Mod mode, pettiness.
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject:
I have no desire to engage in a slanging match with you nor I expect do any of our Moderators. You are entitled to your opinion as are we and we are entitled to run this service as we see fit.
I have explained why we chose to make the changes and we are satisfied that the change was both justified and has subsequently proved to have been the right move. I don't see that we have to justify our actions any further.
My earlier reference to your not having subscribed since 2006 etc was in error, I edited my reply as soon as I realised my mistake and before you had responded and apologise for making the error.
If you take the time to browse the forum you will see that have earnt our excellent reputation by working hard to assist users as we have been doing for six years now.
You feel aggrieved and I understand your position. I wish the reality was otherwise but the few thieves amongst have spoilt it for everyone. When you work as hard as we do to ensure this service is the best available you can I hope understand why we perhaps over reacted having read your response. My response was perhaps a knee jerk reaction to undeserved criticism but there you go, I'm human!
We do our very best, we bend over backwards to help customers, resolve issues etc but cannot be all things to all people.
Now if you want to discuss GPS, we're here to help and perhaps we can start again? _________________ Darren Griffin
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