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Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:05 am Post subject: Dashcam advice please
I have a NextBase 512GW. It takes 128GB SDXC card, which will cover me for a day's working/driving - say 8 to 10 hours.
Noticing that police these days often ask if anybody has dashcam footage of an incident, I conclude I can never help, because next day I will have overwritten it. Also, Penalty Charge Notices are usually issued up to 14 days after an offence, so when I got a ticket for driving on Bank House Street in London, I had nothing to show for it. I got off the ticket by using Peppipoo advice and Google Streetview screenshots, but I so wish I could have looked at my actual drive.
So question is, how to keep the stuff? I'm thinking a stock of 15 to 20 SDXC cards (7DayShop currently have an offer of 2 for £21.98, so 20 will cost me over £200) and the bother of changing them every day and keeping track of the dates of each one. Or alternatively, download each day to storage, but 20 x 128GB is into 2-3 TB and I don't have that spare on my Mac. _________________ Dennis
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 7147 Location: Reading
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:37 am Post subject:
That is the problem.
The only way to keep them is to save them externally to a PC.
Given you have a Nextbase there should be an option to download the 'Lo' files that are considerably smaller than the full blown 'Hi' files that are typically ~500Mb for 3 minutes.
I'm in the same boat. I'm doing an hour and a half daily and formatting the card weekly without saving. Hopefully my 50mph GPS speed (53mph car speedo) through the M4 roadworks won't trigger a NIP. Nothing so far and I've been doing it a month now.
My Viofo doesn't have a 'Lo' file(s) option. _________________ DashCam:
Viofo A119 V3
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4918 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject:
I've got several years of all of my driving on dashcam footage stored on external hard drives.
You can get a 5TB hard drive from Amazon for under £100. I generally get a year or more driving for one vehicle on one 5TB drive. Admittedly I don't drive much, probably around 8,000 miles per year per vehicle.
You can reuse the external drive or just buy a new one. Either way, you should have enough storage to keep for several months even if you're driving 8 or 10 hours a day.
I normally change my SD card every 5 to 7 days when I'm not doing big trips. If I'm doing big trips then I change SD cards more offten.
When on holiday, I change the SD card every day. I used to keep a notebook to roughly tally up the time driving on each card but now I have enough cards it's easier to swap every day when on holiday.
I have 26 SD cards, all are numbered. Every time they are used, they are copied to the external hard drive and then fully formatted. Before they are formatted, I load up my dashcam software and check that the copied data on the hard drive has video, audio, and GPS and that all three are fully synchronised.
I change SD cards on the first day of each month so that I can drill down the folders to year, month, and several days' worth of footage.
Don't forget to check your rear dashcam footage too.
By the way, regular full formatting of the SD cards is the key to keeping your dashcam running and also the video, audio, and GPS synchronised.
NB. All of my SD cards are 64GB. My dashcams (All RoadHawks HD2 and DC3) are running 1080, 30FPS, highest bitrate, and at that setting can store between around 9 or more hours of footage. My dashcams are only recording whilst driving, they are not wired for sentry mode.
Regards, _________________ Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:11 am Post subject:
Thank you. It seems the solution is loadsa micro SDHC cards and a decent size external drive.
Today I turned my odometer over 86,000 miles. That’s in 18 months. I did 470 miles today (I went past Eldwick, but didn’t get my van washed - The North was having enough water today!)
Downloading one card a day to external hard drive is say 28 a month, 4 TB Drive. Setup cost about £375. Ouch! _________________ Dennis
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject:
And mine. At least I managed to escape THE NORTH - returned down M6 instead of M1. (The place I delivered to in Keighley had an enormous puddle in the gateway entrance too). _________________ Dennis
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4918 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
Thank you. It seems the solution is loadsa micro SDHC cards and a decent size external drive.
Yes, that's all you need.
You don't need to buy too many cards all at once, buy a few and see if that's enough for you. I only have so many for the times that we go on holiday without the means to copy the SD cards to a hard drive.
I have a dashcam front and rear. Whilst I try not to let my front dashcam get full and thus start to overwrite the earlier footage, I'm happy to let the rear dashcam overwrite earlier stuff. By the way, I ensure that the timestamp is switched on so the video is recorded with date and time - just in case I get accused of overstaying in a car park.
If you need a good dashcam viewing program for your Mac or Windows computer then I recommend Dashcam Viewer by Earthshine Software, although it's not free it is very useful.
How do you have your dashcam set (resolution, FPS, bitrate, etc) and how many hours can you fit onto a 64 or 128 GB card?
Regards, _________________ Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 7147 Location: Reading
Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:29 pm Post subject:
I can see a van full of SDCards, back of dash, floor, sides of seats, down the vents, etc .....
Just as an aside, Arriva London, Wood Green bus garage were trialling a system where each buses CCTV was automatically offloaded to a central server each time the bus entered the garage.
There is a 'loop' that surrounds the entrance that triggers a WiFi download that covers the whole of the garage.
Prior to this each bus had to be physically entered and the CCTV tape manually changed and offloaded. _________________ DashCam:
Viofo A119 V3
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:34 am Post subject:
Oh dear, I don't have a loop on my driveway. And I don't have a rear view dashcam.
I don't know what the camera settings are without getting it off and fiddling with the buttons (difficult without R-ing the FM), but the Keighley trip used more than its capacity - looks like I get a little over 7 hours. I remember the write up said 8 hours for a 128GB card, but presumably that's straight running without the gaps of any stops making more files. I guess I'm going to have to reduce the settings to get more on a card, but I wonder what that does to the quality - I don't record audio because I don't want my radio recorded and I assumed that would reduce the storage requirement. It does record time stamp, which also has GPS coordinates. It records in .mov format which plays back in Quicktime quite satisfactorily on my Mac and imports to iMovie if I want to
I've just found an ancient WD external hard drive, 1TB, so I'll try that for a while with a lower camera setting - no point in reducing the resolution if it won't keep registration numbers is there? Right now I only have two 128GB cards and I'm keeping one aside for the time being as a camera flashed on the M5 southbound on the way home from Keighley, when somebody passed me and I need evidence that I was under the limit even if he wasn't - the flash recorded as a (VERY) brief reflection from the lorry in front (actually, I'll copy it off to HD instead and hope nobody will reject it as a copy which might have been doctored). _________________ Dennis
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4918 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:51 am Post subject:
DennisN wrote:
I don't have a rearview dashcam.
Rearview dashcams are not essential but they are useful to record what happens behind you for a bigger picture if needed. I have front-facing footage of being hit (from the rear) at 70mph whilst stationary in a queue of traffic in lane 2 of the A34. I would like to have seen whether the driver who hit me actually noticed that there was a queue in front or whether he was on the phone. In addition, should your primary (i.e. front-facing) dashcam ever fail then you can move the rear-facing dashcam to the front.
DennisN wrote:
I don't know what the camera settings are without getting it off and fiddling with the buttons (difficult without R-ing the FM), but the Keighley trip used more than its capacity - looks like I get a little over 7 hours. I remember the write up said 8 hours for a 128GB card, but presumably that's straight running without the gaps of any stops making more files.
Yes, 8 hours is whilst the unit is recording when you're driving unless you use sentry mode which requires the unit to have a battery and/or be permanently wired into your vehicles electrics.
DennisN wrote:
I guess I'm going to have to reduce the settings to get more on a card, but I wonder what that does to the quality - I don't record audio because I don't want my radio recorded and I assumed that would reduce the storage requirement.
I don't think that recording audio makes any difference to the storage. I have the audio on.
I think the three things that affect the storage are: Resolution (i.e. 720, 1080, 2.7k, etc); Bitrate; and Frames Per Second (FPS).
My RoadHawk HD2s and DC3s can do either 720 (1280 x 720) or 1080 (1920 x 1080). I think newer dashcams may even do 2.7k (2704 x 1520). Yes, 2.7k allows you to zoom in but I'm happy with 1080 as it shows what happened. So I think the resolution is the place where you can reduce the storage.
In my experience, it's best to have the highest bitrate possible without causing unstable footage. RoadHawks used to have a setting where the highest bitrate caused problems at 1080 resolution. RoadHawks no longer show what the bitrate is just a setting for low, medium, high, but I think the highest is around 20 MB/s.
FPS can cause issues. There is no point running at 60FPS unless you want spectacular slow motion. Knocking FPS from 60 to 30 will halve your storage and yet give good enough footage.
If you have HDR setting then use it so that exposure is automatic for lighting conditions for the day, night, etc.
DennisN wrote:
I've just found an ancient WD external hard drive, 1TB, so I'll try that for a while with a lower camera setting - no point in reducing the resolution if it won't keep registration numbers is there?
Yes, the 1TB external drive will be a good start.
Personally, I think that people get too hung up on setting dashcams up to record registration numbers. I admit that at 1080, 20 MB/s, 30 FPS my dashcams don't always get the registration numbers perfectly but they do catch the vehicle, it's colour, and often the full registration or enough for the police to make the best guess. It's a trade-off of footage quality versus storage. I think that my settings are optimal for me, other people may have different requirements.
DennisN wrote:
Right now I only have two 128GB cards and I'm keeping one aside for the time being as a camera flashed on the M5 southbound on the way home from Keighley, when somebody passed me and I need evidence that I was under the limit even if he wasn't - the flash recorded as a (VERY) brief reflection from the lorry in front (actually, I'll copy it off to HD instead and hope nobody will reject it as a copy which might have been doctored).
If you just copy footage from an SD card to a hard drive then it should be identical so it would never appear to be doctored, however, I'm pretty sure that electronic forensics would quite easily determine whether footage has been doctored.
Regards, _________________ Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Joined: Apr 04, 2006 Posts: 10118 Location: Bexhill, South Sussex, UK
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:11 pm Post subject:
They certainly did with that geezer who came here a while ago wanting to doctor the time on something to avoid a fine. Got caught because he forgot GMT/BST switchover and got banged up for his troubles.
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4918 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:19 pm Post subject:
One of my dashcams is a pre-production model and I can't get it to change from BST back to GMT. There are no switches - I just have to edit the configuration.txt file. Not as easy or as quick as pressing a button on the unit or using an app on the phone! So I'm going to have to run that dashcam with the wrong time until I can force it back to GMT or wait until it's BST again.
Anyway, the Dashcam Viewer software that I use can see the UTC time as well as the set time. I'm pretty sure that police forensics have a much better way of detecting doctored dashcam footage. _________________ Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject:
Mine sets the time itself - presumably by magic.
Rearview camera is not practical in my van - first, not enough angle on the sucker mount thing to use the vertical windows in the back doors: second, the back doors are in constant use, so the power cable has to come off the bodywork in a manner which doesn't rip the camera off when I open the doors. I can only use one door because the wiper is on one door only (I have concentrated back doors - one bigger than the other) and I don't usually run the rear wiper continuously, relying more on my door mirrors. And when the bloke shunted me from behind at traffic lights, I actually watched him coming - and said eeeeek!)
This lunchtime, I found that my setting is 1440p, for which the record volume is 480 minutes. I have four options, 1440p (default), 1080p 60FPS, 1080p and 720p. So I have changed it to 1080p. At these settings, 1440p uses some 760Mb and 1080p uses 353Mb. A cursory check shows the definition isn't greatly noticeable (I can stop it and read number plates at similar distances). That should pretty much double the recording capacity to around 16 hours, well enough for one of my days. _________________ Dennis
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20 Posts: 4918 Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:56 pm Post subject:
Excellent!
Sounds like your settings are now 1080 with 30 FPS. What's your bitrate?
If a 128GB card gives you 16 hours, then a 64GB card will give you 8 hours. Your set-up is now similar to mine as is your storage usage.
You might find that you'll get longer than 16 hours on one card and thus you might be able to go down to using 64GB cards, which would give you more cards for the money and it's cheaper to throw away a smaller card if it ever gets corrupted and can't be fixed by a full format.
Out of interest, what is your recording interval set to mine are all set to one minute sessions. Although they have a subsecond pause between clips in Dashcam Viewer, they will merge together in iMovie for continual footage if needed.
Regards, _________________ Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D
Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 14902 Location: Keynsham
Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:50 pm Post subject:
I wonder what bitrate is? I can’t see any such thing in the FM.
I need more than 8 hours - it would not be once in a blue moon to deliver to Bradford as I did on Thursday and four hours each way can easily be exceeded. So 16 hours is good/safer for me.
My recording interval is 3 minutes, but in fact I’m thinking of bumping it up to 5 minutes, because most of my driving is distance, no point in being so short as 3 minutes, that seems more appropriate for stop start driving. iMovie joins the segments perfectly, although I only rarely create movies from the dashcam. I would expect (as a complete layman with no techno ability) that five one minute segments would use more storage space than one five minute segment - at the least, there are five filenames as opposed to one. I was wrong once earlier today, so you won’t surprise me! _________________ Dennis
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So I'm going to have to run that dashcam with the wrong time until I can force it back to GMT or wait until it's BST again.
