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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:28 am Post subject: What Happens If Satnav fails? |
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A report published today by the Royal Academy of Engineering has once again raised the spectre of our over reliance on Global Navigation Satellite Systems (GNSS) and associated technology.
The detailed report reveals just how reliant, maybe overly so, we have become. GNSS provides highly accurate timing signals which are extensively used in banking, telecommunications and even quantum cryptography as well as the traditional users in road transport, maritime and aviation.
A number of interesting points are raised in the report. With no-one having a clear oversight of GNSS and those who rely on the data, no-one can accurately predict the outcome of a partial or total failure of the network. But what is clear is that an outage could bring down communications networks, affect banking systems and a myriad of other services and let's not forget the navigation systems that now rely on GPS.
And the concerns are justified. There are a number of areas in which GNSS is vulnerable. There is a lack of redundancy in the satellite constellations, the risk of human error in the uploading of data to the satellites, clock errors, service interruption due to radiation, solar storms etc and the ever present fear of terrorism with attacks on ground based installations vital to the system.
The US Government Accountability Office has already raised concerns that the NAVSTAR GPS constellation could be at risk of multiple failures. Ageing spacecraft are overdue for replacement due to late delivery of new hardware. And bad data has been uploaded in error on a number of occasions and there is a genuine fear that a solar storm could knock out multiple satellites.
The Royal Academy also raise the issue of GPS jammers. These devices are widely available in high and low power variants and although it is illegal to operate one, bizarrely it is perfectly lawful to buy and sell them. People are buying them to block tracking devices installed in company vehicles or tracking devices installed to protect a vehicle against theft. With there being no legitimate use for such a device it would seem sensible to legislate to ban their sale entirely?
The aim of the report is to raise the visibility of these issues and cause users to consider what they would do if the service was interrupted. Do they have resilient systems that can operate in the absence of the GNSS service until service is restored? Are those systems that rely on the precision timing able to operate autonomously if the timing signal is lost, and if so, for how long? A localised outage may last a matter of hours but a large system failure could put the timing signals out of service for months or even years.
The full report can be read on the Royal Academy of Engineering's web site here. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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exportman Frequent Visitor
Joined: Mar 26, 2006 Posts: 261 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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What Happens If Satnav fails?
A lot of people get lost
Some will have to learn to drive with their eyes on something other than the satnav and maybe ready road signs. Fewer people will drive on to raiway crossing or drive across traffic at no right turn junctions.
What will they blame if they cant blame the satnav for sending them the wrong way |
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PaulB2005 Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006 Posts: 9323 Location: Durham, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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exportman wrote: | What Happens If Satnav fails?
A lot of people get lost
Some will have to learn to drive with their eyes on something other than the satnav and maybe ready road signs. Fewer people will drive on to raiway crossing or drive across traffic at no right turn junctions.
What will they blame if they cant blame the satnav for sending them the wrong way |
Er. It's not just vehicle sat nav mind....
Quote: | GNSS provides highly accurate timing signals which are extensively used in banking, telecommunications and even quantum cryptography as well as the traditional users in road transport, maritime and aviation. |
and
Quote: | what is clear is that an outage could bring down communications networks, affect banking systems and a myriad of other services |
Quite a few NON-navigational systems rely on the accurate time clock signals for their operation.
Last edited by PaulB2005 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MaFt Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 15315 Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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exportman wrote: | What will they blame if they cant blame the satnav for sending them the wrong way |
That their printed maps were out of date? |
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PaulB2005 Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 04, 2006 Posts: 9323 Location: Durham, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Also i would not be laughing if Ambulances and the like had to rely* on paper maps rather than automated system that sends the GPS location to their sat nav...
* Emergency Services DO have contingency training for in the event of a short term failure of sat nav / computer systems. Not sure what the long term effects would be these days... |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Quite. This has little to do with general public using satnavs but everything to do with supertankers that rely on GPS, and mobile phones, bank transacting systems and cashpoints, aviation (where GPS can now be used for approach phase of landing) and emergency services.
An outage could cause havoc of course but more worrying is an error in data that goes unnoticed. That could see a supertanker laden with natural gas wander off course by 1/2mile or more or a passenger airliner to miss the runway.
That is all too possible with the current technology and worryingly, whilst more and more reliance is placed on GPS and precision timing services, very little thought has been given to what we do if it were to disappear for however long. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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Guivre46 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Apr 14, 2010 Posts: 1262 Location: West London
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I was uncertain about the risk of jamming devices. I've since read another article that suggests a 'terrorist' could take one on board an aircraft or ship and take it off course, presumably with a view to wrecking it. Though planes are presumably tracked by ground stations as well as on-board systems. _________________ Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
Go 530T - unsupported
Go550 Live [not renewed]
Kia In-dash Tomtom |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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More on the issue of GPS Jammers. CRFS, a UK company that monitors the radio spectrum claims it is regularly detecting the use of GPS jammers.
"We are detecting increasing use of jamming equipment as we monitor spectrum usage around the country." says David Cleevely, Chairman of CRFS, "[b]We need to monitor the use of this equipment so that we can detect and stop its use quickly".
"We regularly detect instances of GPS jammers in use as we monitor radio activity around the UK. The plot from one of our detectors shows one which we saw in use on the A4 near Kew Bridge", said Alistair Massarella, CEO of CRFS.
CRFS are proposing a network of monitors be installed in major urban centres to allow the monitoring of the use of these jamming devices.
It's interesting to hear about GPS jammers being detected in use here in the UK. Given they are illegal to use, and there is no honest reason to use one, it does seem particularly foolish that they can be sold legally. It would be far easier to enforce the law if the possession, sale, importation etc was outlawed. _________________ Darren Griffin
Last edited by Darren on Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pward Occasional Visitor
Joined: Jun 15, 2005 Posts: 57
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: |
An outage could cause havoc of course but more worrying is an error in data that goes unnoticed. That could see a supertanker laden with natural gas wander off course by 1/2mile or more or a passenger airliner to miss the runway.
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Hmm...It's unlikely that a GPS error would lead to major problems in either the marine or aviation environments. Yes, GPS is used in both ships and aircraft but in both cases it is used in conjunction with other navigation equipment and not as the sole navigational tool. For one thing the civilian GPS signal isn't accurate enough by itself for use in landing an aircraft and augmentation needs to be used to improve accuracy.
Even if there was a GPS error, air traffic controllers would alert the pilot using their radar... |
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mikealder Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jan 14, 2005 Posts: 19638 Location: Blackpool , Lancs
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if the next "report" issued by the experts will be claiming the European GPS system that is currently being worked up won't be as susceptible to jamming and therefore safer in use.......
The article on Sky News was even better:
"The academy's Professor Paul Cannon said a major "space weather event", where sun-flare activity would lead to disruption of satellite systems, had not taken place since 1859"
The planet Earth only had one satellite back in 1859 and its still visible with the naked eye most nights - Mike |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure there is a level of scaremongering in this report but the Royal Academy isn't the mouthpiece of a commercial organisation and their concerns are entirely valid. The report has not been compiled as a sales tool for Galileo which is, after all, just as vulnerable to most if not all these issues.
Of course we could just pooh pooh the warnings and hope this never happens.
The report raises some interesting concerns, and there is a growing reliance on GNSS which is unregulated and unmonitored. Surely it's sensible to ask what provisions have been set in place to cater for an outage? I'm sure we'd all be complaining if the cashpoints or our mobiles stopped working? _________________ Darren Griffin |
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Oldboy Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 10643 Location: Suffolk, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | It's interesting to hear about GPS jammers being detected in use here in the UK. Given they are illegal to use, and there is no honest reason to use one, ..... | I was talking to a works driver today, and we got on to the subject of GPS trackers fitted in company vehicles.
Apparently it's a growing practice, by some drivers, to use jammers to throw the trackers of the track, so to speak. _________________ Richard
TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1140 |
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Darren Frequent Visitor
Joined: 11/07/2002 14:36:40 Posts: 23848 Location: Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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But it would be immediately obvious, to those monitoring, that a jammer was in use AND the idiots that use these presumably don't realise that their use is an offence, or simply don't care.
It'll serve them right if they lose their jobs because they've used a jammer, zero sympathy. _________________ Darren Griffin |
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Oldboy Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 10643 Location: Suffolk, UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Darren wrote: | zero sympathy. | I agree. It's people like that who make it worse for those who do follow the rules. _________________ Richard
TT 910 V7.903: Europe Map v1045
TT Via 135 App 12.075: Europe Map v1140 |
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Guivre46 Frequent Visitor
Joined: Apr 14, 2010 Posts: 1262 Location: West London
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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mikealder wrote: | The planet Earth only had one satellite back in 1859 and its still visible with the naked eye most nights - Mike |
I've noticed though that it does seem to 'come and go'. You'd have thought they could arrange a consistent visual signal by now. _________________ Mike R [aka Wyvern46]
Go 530T - unsupported
Go550 Live [not renewed]
Kia In-dash Tomtom |
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