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Tomo
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 17, 2004
Posts: 212
Location: Fife Scotland
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 Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: TomTom Auto Updated cams and PGPSW Database together |
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A while ago I got shot down for the suggestion of using the TT Live database along with the PGPSW database.
My thoughts were to keep the TT Live (on the x40 Range) enabled but only select the mobile cameras from the list that are updated over the air.
Also have running an up to date version of the PGPSW database, which as we know gets better and more accurate on every release.
I was hoping that, if enough people did this and used the TT unit to update the positions of mobile cameras while on the move then other users behind them would be notified of LIVE and WORKING mobile units in addition to the warning that one might be there.
The idea, we believe, for the TT live service that if another user passes a mobile camera then they use the units menu and report it back to server, then that location gets distributed to other units. That location will time out though, but seems no one knows how long that takes (def no more than 24hrs).
Anyway, over the last few weeks/months of doing similar journeys the PGPSW alert has gone off for a location, then shortly after the TT alert has gone off. This indicates to me that a Mobile unit has been there recently or is there at the moment. The following day, the TT alert hasnt gone off for the same location, so its "timed out".
Now, out of these 20 or so times in recent months the TT alert has gone off (along with the PGPSW one) on 2 occasions there has actually been a mobile van at that location!! So, someone somewhere is updating the TT database.
So, my thoughts are, for those running x40 devices and paying the subs is to use the PGPSW database and keep it updated, as this gets 99.9% of Static cameras and possible locations for mobile cameras AND enable the TT database but only have the Mobile camera part of it enabled. The mobile part of the TT database ONLY warns of those locations that it thinks are, or have been active within the last 24 hours and so doesnt annoy you that much (if at all) with false alerts.
Just to note, Im not criticising the PGPSW database in any way at all.... and hopefully with the addition of new units and coding tools then maybe one day PGPSW could have a similar updating system enabled in the TT units themselves, or even better TT ditch their own database and use PGPSW's one!!
Steve |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15157
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: |
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i presume that when you saw the mobile sites in use that you reported them as 'seen again' in the PGPSW database?
also, what warning did the first person to pass the mobile van using only the TT cameras get?
MaFt |
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Tomo
Lifetime Member
Joined: May 17, 2004
Posts: 212
Location: Fife Scotland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: | i presume that when you saw the mobile sites in use that you reported them as 'seen again' in the PGPSW database?
also, what warning did the first person to pass the mobile van using only the TT cameras get?
MaFt |
I do try to report again but due to, shall we say technical difficulties at my end I havnt for a while.
Had three new cameras to report last week too but went and wiped my unit before getting the locations off. luckily, have passed them today and they are on the latest issue.
And i would be unable to answer the second question..... Maybe they had no warning, maybe they do the same as me and use both so would of got the PGPSW warning, who knows.
And can I ask what either of your questions has to do with my original post?
I will add that the tt database for gatso's and specs etc and hotspots is pretty diabolicle compared to PGPSW.... Had to resort to it a few weeks back for a day when the unit lost its settings.
But to my mind if all users on here reported a live camera to tomtom and reported back to here then using the 2 databases side by side in the way described would be an extremly good solution.
I drove down to Stoke today on M6 and the tt warned me of 2 locations where it thought a live camera was, so obviously a driver somewhere ahead of me had reported back to tt within the previous few hours. Both locations had PGPSW icons there and happened to be the police only laybys at side of the shoulder, so probably traffic cars sat up at some point beforehand.
Steve |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15157
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Tomo wrote: | | And can I ask what either of your questions has to do with my original post? |
q1:
the website is pocketgpsworld.com and the sub-forum is titled pocketgpsworld.com speed camera database. your original post(s) were basically asking people to report cameras to a competitors database, as you are a lifetime member i was concerned that perhaps you were not reporting them to pgpsw as well.
q2:
i just wondered how exactly the tomtom version works. it seems a bit harsh if the first person (possibly first 100 people depending how quick the system updates) gets a warning - ok, it may be nice to get a 'live' warning but if people get caught out then i'd rather have more false warnings for known mobile sites a la pgpsw database. pure curiosity that's all.
MaFt |
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14893
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| MaFt wrote: | q2:
i just wondered how exactly the tomtom version works. it seems a bit harsh if the first person (possibly first 100 people depending how quick the system updates) gets a warning
MaFt |
I think you got your wording wrong here MaFt and actually meant to say that the first person (or first hundred) do NOT get a warning, because TT won't have received a report and therefore cannot broadcast it.
The problem with TT's non-transparent system is we don't know when they will take the report on board and publish it - do they accept and broadcast the very first, unconfirmed (unverified) report of a mobile? Or do they wait until a few dozen lucky TT x40 owners have picked up a NIP, 3 points and £60 fine? Judging from the submissions you get to pgpsw, aren't you surprised that TT's report managed to pinpoint the police hard standing first shot? Or do they have our DB on one of their TT devices and verify their mobiles by looking at ours?
Personally, it worries me if our members are supporting TT's database by using ours.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15157
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | MaFt wrote: | q2:
i just wondered how exactly the tomtom version works. it seems a bit harsh if the first person (possibly first 100 people depending how quick the system updates) gets a warning
MaFt |
I think you got your wording wrong here MaFt and actually meant to say that the first person (or first hundred) do NOT get a warning, |
sorry, yes, DO NOT get a warning!
MaFt |
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falkirk81
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Newcastle, England, UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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I personally report mobiles as seen again using the PGPSW seen again feature, AND the Tomtom LIVE speedcam seen again feature. Do not bother with the Tomtom Fixed camera DB because of how inaccurate it can be!
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Tomtom GO 1005 LIVE
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14893
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: | | The problem with TT's non-transparent system is we don't know when they will take the report on board and publish it - do they accept and broadcast the very first, unconfirmed (unverified) report of a mobile? Or do they wait until a few dozen lucky TT x40 owners have picked up a NIP, 3 points and £60 fine? |
I forgot to also ask - How long does it take TT to broadcast? Minutes? Hours? Tomo is the very first person I've heard say he's received a mobile warning from a x40.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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MaFt
Pocket GPS Staff
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 15157
Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Tomo - just to confirm, i'm not picking at how you use the databases - i just wanted to confirm that you were also sending the 'seen again' reports to us!
MaFt |
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falkirk81
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Newcastle, England, UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| DennisN wrote: |
I forgot to also ask - How long does it take TT to broadcast? Minutes? Hours? Tomo is the very first person I've heard say he's received a mobile warning from a x40. |
I get mobile unit warnings all the time on my x40 from the LIVE services speed cam database. Just another warning that can be selected or de-selected like any other camera type!
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Tomtom GO 1005 LIVE
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DennisN
Tired Old Man
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 14893
Location: Keynsham
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| falkirk81 wrote: | | DennisN wrote: |
I forgot to also ask - How long does it take TT to broadcast? Minutes? Hours? Tomo is the very first person I've heard say he's received a mobile warning from a x40. |
I get mobile unit warnings all the time on my x40 from the LIVE services speed cam database. Just another warning that can be selected or de-selected like any other camera type! |
Pardon - what I asked was not "Do you get warnings" (but thanks, that now makes two who've said they get warnings), but "How long does it take TT to broadcast?" in the context of if you are first to report a mobile, when does the next TT user get the warning of it? You first report one at 9am, when does the warning go out for anybody else on that route? If there are fifty TT users lined up behind you at 1 mile, 2 minute intervals, which one gets the warning, 1st or 10th or 50th. In this context, I'm specifying you as reporting, because I'd expect you to be a TT trusted submitter, being believed first time and not needing confirmation by anybody else.
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Dennis
If it tastes good - it's fattening.
Two of them are obesiting!! |
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falkirk81
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Newcastle, England, UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Apologies for the confusion I caused Dennis.
I have no idea, or inside knowledge, of how the TT LIVE mobile speed cams work. I do get a lot of mobile warning locations, but it is impossible to tell which ones are in their DB all the time, and which have 'just been broadcast'.
Another reason why our DB is regarded as the best, total transparency. The TT one has plenty of mysteries surrounding it.
I also have no idea if their mapshare 'trust' idea is used with the speedcams as they are supplied by RoadAngel now. I do not know if I would be considered a 'trusted user' if it were on the trust levels as seen in mapshare!
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Tomtom GO 1005 LIVE
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| falkirk81 wrote: | | Apologies for the confusion I caused Dennis. |
I'll stand up for you, mate... 
I assumed that your "I get mobile unit warnings all the time on my x40..." comment was in reply to the second part of Dennis' post... where he said "Tomo is the very first person I've heard say he's received a mobile warning from a x40."
Not an answer to a question, but an welcome addition to the fund of shared knowledge!  |
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falkirk81
Pocket GPS Verifier
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 1649
Location: Newcastle, England, UK
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Andy. No harm done 
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Tomtom GO 1005 LIVE
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