Laptops vs. dedicated devices for the car

jgombos · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 25, 2006 Posts: 87

With dedicated devices costing about what a cheap laptop costs, I get the impression it might make more sense to install a small laptop in a car, and use GPS software.

Has anyone experimented with this idea? The larger screen (perhaps 12") and other capabilities (like mp3, and option to use as a laptop) seems more appealing - particularly for folks who use laptops anyway.

I'm thinking it would take some creative mounting though.

jgombos · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 25, 2006 Posts: 87

It also occurs to me that a laptop would inherently have the option of switching software if something better comes along a couple years later, because the software is not tied to the hardware.

Skippy · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:16 am Post subject:

It's an interesting idea, you could use it as an entertainment system in your car too and play DVDs, MP3s, Internet etc. There are some Car PC websites out there where people have put PCs in cars and done some pretty cool stuff (not all that cheaply though).

Back in the days when a Sat Nav system cost £500 or more it would have been a pretty attractive option, but you can now get a decent Sat Nav for under £200. Don't forget that this comes with a GPS receiver, mapping software and the maps which would probably cost you £100 or more to buy for your PC.
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Gone fishing!

mikealder · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:51 am Post subject:

Darren · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:08 am Post subject:

I have a few issues with PC/Laptop solutions:

The PC software is way behind that of PocketPC's and PND's. There is no TomTom equivalent and whilst AutoRoute and similar offerings are OK, they are not brilliant.

Secondly Laptops don't lend themselves to European cars and the screens aren't great in direct sunlight.

No inexpensive laptops have touchscreens making in-car operation difficult. Those that do are at the £1000+ end of the scale.

You also need an inverter or specific 12v power supply to power them.

If you want to be able to upgrade as new software comes along, get a PocketPC solution?

With a TomTom ONE available at £170 the argument begins to fall apart!
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Darren Griffin

jgombos · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 25, 2006 Posts: 87

Yeah, giving up the touchscreen is quite a compromise. Wouldn't voice recognition be a substitute?

It wouldn't bother me to give up TomTom. TT is the one maker who keeps their software substantially locked up. Unlike Garmin and Megallen, TT refuses to publish their serial protocols, so open source progress is stopped, while Garmin and Magellan will be able to gain ground from open source contributors.

Even if TT is on top today, I just don't see much of a future for it, considering the Chinese are undercutting them on hardware, and the fact that TT is such a black box, useability is hindered with their Micro$oft business model.

I would expect some loss of quality in going from a dedicated gps to a laptop, but I'm thinking it may be acceptible considering the other benefits of having a laptop in the car.

From an ethical standpoint, I always try to support cooperative vendors over the ones who are competitive to the point of extreme red tape. If a maker publishes their specs for the linux community, I want to reward it, even if it's not the best product out there. That's easier to do on a laptop, where the hardware is not controlled by the software makers.

Darren · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject:

In what way are Garmin 'open'? I'm not a TomTom apologist but they do make an SDK available which allows third parties to code add-ons etc. Garmin don't offer this and I've never heard them described as open before!

I'm not clear what you mean by 'serial protocols'?

The Chinese/Taiwanese/Japanese will always be able to undercut on hardware but what they're good at is emulation not innovation. None of their hardware is leading edge, simply copies of other products and they fail in the GPS Navigation market because their software is very poor where indeed it exists at all.

TomTom succeed because they have a good product in the same way as Garmin, Magellan et al do. There isn't a serious Far East competitor to a Garmin handheld why?

As for usability, TomTom have (IMHO) the best interface of them all and following the Microsoft business model is no bad thing, it hasn't harmed Microsoft! I son't see open source taking over any time soon, the investment required to produce these devices required money from some place, map data isn't free and we are a very long way off an open source routable map.
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Darren Griffin

Skippy · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject:

jgombos · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 25, 2006 Posts: 87

The source for most of my comments about being open is here:

http://www.ibiblio.org/fplan/Aviation-HOWTO/Aviation-HOWTO-8.html

Then I also noticed "Garmin" appears in several places on this page:

http://opensourcegis.org/

Darren · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject:

jgombos · Regular Visitor Joined: Jul 25, 2006 Posts: 87

Darren · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:49 pm Post subject:

But that's not the issue, it's the navigation specific data, turn information, speed, no entry etc? That's what makes a map navigable. There are open source projects but they are never going to be practical on a large scale or at least not in a good many years.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud such attempts but I'm a realist and it's just not going to happen on anywhere near the scale required to tip the balance. Sure it'll keep some geeks happy for a while but Mr & Mrs Smith are going to but a brand name device.
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Darren Griffin

Skippy · Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject:

I'm a big fan of Garmin but Darren is right, they aren't at all open.

You mention that you have just brought a TT stand alone unit. Have a poke around in it, if you are into hacking then I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what you can do....

They run the Open Source Busy Box on a Linux kernel.

TomTom publish a TomTom SDK kit api which allows developers to integrate your own applications into TomTom.

You can run shell / perl scripts or your own applications on your TomTom unit. Have a look at the Open TomTom Wiki.

There's enough there for a keen hacker to be getting on with. Wink

As for map formats, it's true that some people have reverse engineered the Garmin format (in breach of the licensing agreement) but there has been NO help from Garmin in doing this. I don't think that it's any co-incidence that the people who did the bulk of the reverse engineering were based in Russia where they probably won't get traced or sued either...

It is in Garmin (and TomTom's) interest to keep their map formats private so they can protect the mapping data from being copied/modified and prevent third parties making maps to sell without paying a license fee.

The fact that the Garmin map format has been reverse engineered is more a function of Garmin units having been available (and popular) for so long than Garmin being "open".
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Gone fishing!

lola · Lifetime Member Joined: Aug 31, 2006 Posts: 146

I had a GPS mouse for my laptop and I have to say it worked well BUT was unsafe to use, cannot see the screen on the passenger seat and the sound on the laptop couldnt be heard above my diesel engine. Also it doesnt re-route, doesnt work with traffic and so on.

Sold the GPS mouse and bought a TTOV2 Europe and am very pleased with it. The laptop belongs to work.

In my view there is no discussion to be had.

philpugh

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