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Does a gps give true distance?

 
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walkabout
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: Does a gps give true distance? Reply with quote

When you get distance off a gps unit
does it allow for contours of the land?
I have been downloading data off my 60csx and and when looking
at the data I think the distances are straight line, and do not take in
to account the contours, when I look at the profiles it says I travelled
2.5 miles between tors, but when you look at the profiles
I must have travelled another mile up and down the hills.

Do I have to guess my actual miles, by adding a percentage to the recorded miles?

Thanks
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It gives a straight line distance over flat ground.

As you observe, if you navigate to a waypoint a mile away over hilly ground then you could walk much further than that... Confused
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walkabout
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Skippy
Do you know if there is a way to work out the correct distance?
Or a rough idea?
I think the army use a table of some kind to work it out a bit more
accuratly.

Thanks
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AllyCat
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

You could work out the linear distance up (or down) each slope using Pythagoras' Theorem (i.e. add the squares of the horizontal and vertical distances, then take the square root). The extra distance is probably less than you think, for example 400 metres horizontally and 300 metres vertically (which is virtually a flight of steps) only becomes 500 metres, or a 25% increase on the horizontal distance. In practice, a path will normally zig-zag on such a hill, which the GPS should take into account (and the effective gradient is then much less).

However, the linear distance on a steep slope gives a poor indication of the effort expended or the time taken. For this, I suggest you Google "Naismith's Rule" (which is, or can be, included in some of the PC mapping programs). Here's a link I found:

http://www.walkingontheweb.co.uk/Walking_Distances.htm

Cheers, Alan.
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lbendlin
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You also have to be careful if you want to measure distance at low speed. The inherent position error of GPS will introduce significant jitter, and can add or substract arbitrary amounts from your overall distance. You see that when you stand still - your GPS position will jump back and forth for quite a few meters/yards.
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philpugh
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy wrote:
It gives a straight line distance over flat ground.

As you observe, if you navigate to a waypoint a mile away over hilly ground then you could walk much further than that... Confused


Isn't it (to be a tad pedantic) distance over the surface of the ellipsoid used to estimate the surface of the earth? This changes very slightly between different co-ordinate datum.

There is also some variability introduced by the positional 'wandering' caused by atmospherics, local geography, satellite geometry etc... All these effects may be small but do mount up when walking. But hilly ground will certainly give rise to distance errors (always an under estimate)
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Skippy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philpugh wrote:
There is also some variability introduced by the positional 'wandering' caused by atmospherics, local geography, satellite geometry etc... All these effects may be small but do mount up when walking.


The wandering goes one way then the other so surely the net result is that when measuring distance the position error would cancel itself out over time rather than being cumulative?
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lbendlin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, over a period of 48 hours. But who is walking THAT slow?
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mikealder
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a recorded instance of "slow" walking, OK no GPS involved as far as I know, have a look HERE Laughing Mike
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Border_Collie
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Lloyd Scott is known across Britain and around the world as the walking Deep Sea Diver,

He'd be alright with my device then. When setting up a Route from Home (Kent) to POI Basildon Hospital, it shows a distance of 10 miles. The fact the road distance is around 38 miles, I guess it routes under the Medway and Thames. :P
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philpugh
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy wrote:
philpugh wrote:
There is also some variability introduced by the positional 'wandering' caused by atmospherics, local geography, satellite geometry etc... All these effects may be small but do mount up when walking.


The wandering goes one way then the other so surely the net result is that when measuring distance the position error would cancel itself out over time rather than being cumulative?


No - your position could be averaged if you stood still for 12/24/48 hrs (take your pick) but your distance will be cumulative - i.e. each second your GPS would calculate your position and work out how far you have travelled by comparing this to the last position, calculating the distance and adding it to the last cumulative trip figure. It doesn't have any way of knowing if it is real movement or just random variations. Perversley the slower you are travelling the worse this error will be. So a walker on the mythical ellipsoid surface could find he had "travelled" further from A-B than a cyclist / motorist / aviator (in that order) doing the same journey as the additional distance will depend upon the total time taken for the journey.
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