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henryg
Regular Visitor
Joined: Jul 05, 2005
Posts: 78
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 Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: Box Junction Cameras |
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Are there any POIs for these cameras, which I suspect are the latest wheeze in raising local taxes through the back door.
A friend just received a ticket, and is very doubtful that he stopped in the box junction. The camera is set so high it foreshortens all distances, and without that there was clearly room to move through the junction and stop past it.
It will cost hime £100 to get the video, or he has to travel to Croydon to view it. Can he claim expenses and/or damages if he proves this is a false/malicious/wrongly issued ticket? |
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henryg
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Joined: Jul 05, 2005
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: |
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I'll pass that link on thanks.
Should we be asking for a POI for box junction cameras. They could work out worse than speed cameras, as the cameras are pretty hard to spot and with no tell-tale road markings to say a camera is present. |
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MikeOnABike
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Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="henryg"] | Border_Collie wrote: | | and with no tell-tale road markings to say a camera is present. |
Apart from the yellow box junction markings...
I suppose in terms of completeness the database should include them but they are on a par with red light cameras IMHO. You wouldn't run red lights if there was no camera, so would you block a box junction that had no camera?
I saw 2 traffic wardens outside hammersmith broadway one evening taking the plates of every car that wandered out into the box junction - people kept coming, like lemmings. |
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MikeOnABike
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Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Apologies for the double post. Rant mode:
Be careful with that news article. There are errors and omissions.
The highway code does NOT state "you can enter a yellow box junction even if your exit is blocked by oncoming traffic, or other vehicles turning right". It states only that you may enter if your exit is clear or you are turning right and you are prevented from doing so by oncoming traffic.
I ride past that box junction twice a day. "The video clearly shows I was turning right" and "He might argue he is there to right-turn and is prevented from completing by other vehicles that are still waiting to make a right turn" is a pile of ass. That box junction is ON a right turn with filter lights. The manoeuvre that gentleman made is not a right turn IMO and he was certainly not blocked by oncoming traffic but by other "turning" traffic. Goes to show what a good lawyer can do.
Sorry, rant mode. 8) |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeOnABike wrote: |
The highway code does NOT state "you can enter a yellow box junction even if your exit is blocked by oncoming traffic, or other vehicles turning right". It states only that you may enter if your exit is clear or you are turning right and you are prevented from doing so by oncoming traffic. |
I disagree....
The On-line version of the Highway code HERE clearly states:
| Quote: | | ....and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. |
Are you saying the printed version is different? |
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MikeOnABike
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Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy_P2002 wrote: |
I disagree....
The On-line version of the Highway code HERE clearly states:
| Quote: | | ....and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. |
Are you saying the printed version is different? |
Ah yes, sarcastic pedant mode. And those vehicles in front waiting to turn right are prevented from doing so because of oncoming traffic. Apologies for not getting the exact quote from the highway code but you appear to have found that yourself so I wrongly assumed I'd be understood.
At that junction, you are not turning right and blocked by oncoming traffic. You are turning right and your exit is blocked. Therefore you must not enter the box junction. Nevermind, this is a speed camera forum not a highway code forum. Point being knowing where accident blackspots are is useful, knowing where traffic light and box junction cameras less so (unless you're downloading the DB to speed past and through areas and lights with no cameras?). |
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neil01
Frequent Visitor
Joined: May 06, 2005
Posts: 902
Location: Leeds
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeOnABike wrote: | | ...I suppose in terms of completeness the database should include them but they are on a par with red light cameras IMHO. You wouldn't run red lights if there was no camera, so would you block a box junction that had no camera?... |
While I agree with your sentiments, I am rather grateful for the warnings for redlight cameras. If I know that there is a camera, I also know that a car in front is more likely to do an emergency stop almost on top of the lights when they change to amber, rather than (quite legally) continue through. As a cosequence of this 'panic induced dangerous driving' I will find I suddenly have some 20' or so less distance to stop in. |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Are you calling ME the sarcastic pedant here? Well you can get off my back RIGHT now.
I simply pointed out that the wording of the Highway Code that I found online is quite clear, and AS I READ IT, it says that if you are turning right you can wait in the box if either oncoming traffic or vehicles in front trying to turn right are stopping you going through..
I'm not at all sure why you are attempting to justify something that has now been thrown out of court on a point of law.
And why do you say "And those vehicles in front waiting to turn right are prevented from doing so because of oncoming traffic." Where the hell does that come from? It's not relevant at all, the car in front could have stalled or there any number of other reasons why it hasn't moved. |
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Privateer
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: 30/12/2002 17:36:20
Posts: 4916
Location: Oxfordshire, England, UK
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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OK everybody - please settle down!
_________________
Robert.
iPhone 6s Plus, iOS 14.0.1: iOS CamerAlert v2.0.7
TomTom GO Mobile iOS 2.3.1; TomTom (UK & ROI and Europe) iOS apps v1.29
Garmin Camper 770 LMT-D |
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Andy_P
Pocket GPS Moderator
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 19991
Location: West and Southwest London
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Settled....  |
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MikeOnABike
Occasional Visitor
Joined: Dec 07, 2005
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Belligerent. 
Aeh, I just filter past the fools blocking the junctions anyway. |
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