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Bazzer
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Joined: Feb 17, 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Wirral
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 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:43 am Post subject: Strange.....but true or untrue |
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Does anyone else think that it is very unusual for a new version of CoPilot to be released with absolutely no pre-release copy having been given to PGPSWorld (or anyone else for that matter) for review.
I would have thought that if ALK have confidence in their product, they would have been more than happy for reviewers to positively (?) assess CP6 with the view that it would generate more sales.
As things stand, it just appears to be existing users upgrading in the hope that the new version is better. But this is blind faith, as no one really knows.
Or perhaps ALK are running scared. In view of all the negative comments about the accuracy of the review of CP5, they are afraid any review of CP6 would have to be more honest, and could therefore conclude that CP6 is substandard, thereby killing CP6 before it's released.
Given that Dave Burrows said...
| Quote: | Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject:
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There is no release date for any new versions of CoPilot software, we're still working on v5 at present.
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Working on v5?? Then why was there no further update after 5.0.1.48 ? Where are the results of all the work on V.5 ? Only then to release V.6 (the one ALK were not working on  ) in November (without any known beta testing or reviews  )
Any software upgrades for V.5 would have been free, but existing users have to buy V.6.
Misinformation. Smoke and mirrors.
And as 'SatNav' has been reported to be possibly the biggest selling Xmas gift this year, have ALK abandoned it's CP5 users as a lost cause, and are now targeting the potentially lucrative new generation of SatNav consumers
Just my musings before I go to bed.
Nighty night
Baz
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Northernbloke
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Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Most of the negative comments about CP5 initially were down to the fact that certain highly placed members of this forum gave such a glowing review of what turned out to be a fundamentally flawed product with shoddy customer service support. And it quickly became obvious to users that there were some major short-comings with it
The negative comments increased when it became apparent that ALK were doing very little/nothing to fix the european problems and customers had to resort to using the USA upgrades and trying to help themselves by inventing workarounds to the problems.
| Quote: | | And as 'SatNav' has been reported to be possibly the biggest selling Xmas gift this year, have ALK abandoned it's CP5 users as a lost cause, and are now targeting the potentially lucrative new generation of SatNav consumers |
That hits the nail on the head in my opinion seems like it's exactly what ALK have done. |
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Darren
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Location: Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Strange.....but true or untrue |
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| Bazzer wrote: | | Does anyone else think that it is very unusual for a new version of CoPilot to be released with absolutely no pre-release copy having been given to PGPSWorld (or anyone else for that matter) for review. |
It's not unusual, I don't doubt we will get a review copy but when I cannot say. It may be that ALK are busy servicing upgrade orders which should have a higher priority than the press but that's supposition.
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Darren
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Northernbloke wrote: | | Most of the negative comments about CP5 initially were down to the fact that certain highly placed members of this forum gave such a glowing review of what turned out to be a fundamentally flawed product with shoddy customer service support. And it quickly became obvious to users that there were some major short-comings with it |
If you insist on re-hashing this statement (and it has been done to death so many times now I really had hoped we had seen the last of it) then at least ensure the statement is factually correct.
The 'glowing review' as you describe it was by a single PocketGPS staff member not member(s) and he has since left. It was his honest opinion of the product at the time of his review. I appreciate that he now works for ALK but that opportunity arose many months after the review was authored and had no bearing on its conclusions.
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Northernbloke
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Darren wrote: |
If you insist on re-hashing this statement (and it has been done to death so many times now I really had hoped we had seen the last of it) then at least ensure the statement is factually correct.
The 'glowing review' as you describe it was by a single PocketGPS staff member not member(s) and he has since left. It was his honest opinion of the product at the time of his review. I appreciate that he now works for ALK but that opportunity arose many months after the review was authored and had no bearing on its conclusions. |
So what was so bad about my post Darren? I didn't "re-hash" anything.
I was merely adding my comments in reponse to Bazzers mention of the amount of negativity regarding CP5. In my opinion much of that negativity was "initially" caused as a direct result of the review by Dave Burrows. I certainly wasn't implying that he'd done it to get himself a job with ALK or indeed that anything underhand had occurred.
I can see your point that i used the word "members" instead of "member" which may have given the impression that it was the work of more than one person.
However as the review caused so much of a commotion on here but was allowed to remain in place and unaltered by the other people responsible for the running of the site/forum and they supported and defended the author then they are equally responsible for it (IMHO anyway).
I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, or have a go at anyone, I was just posting my opinion. |
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Darren
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Northernbloke wrote: | | I certainly wasn't implying that he'd done it to get himself a job with ALK or indeed that anything underhand had occurred. |
And I wasn't suggesting that you were, merely pointing that fact out for clarity.
| Quote: | | I can see your point that i used the word "members" instead of "member" which may have given the impression that it was the work of more than one person. |
And that was one of my points.
| Quote: | However as the review caused so much of a commotion on here but was allowed to remain in place and unaltered by the other people responsible for the running of the site/forum and they supported and defended the author then they are equally responsible for it (IMHO anyway).
I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, or have a go at anyone, I was just posting my opinion. |
Your last comment is my point exactly. The review is the opinion of the reviewer. We defended the right of the reviewer to have an opinion and would no more impose changes to a review than ask that you change your opinion.
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Northernbloke
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Your last comment is my point exactly. The review is the opinion of the reviewer. We defended the right of the reviewer to have an opinion and would no more impose changes to a review than ask that you change your opinion.
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Indeed, however take a situation where a journalist publishes an article they have written and it subsequently proves to be untrue/misleading/whatever then the publication it appeared in invariably takes some form of remedial action by publishing corrections/apologies etc. By not doing that when the review was so bad in so many other peoples opinions then you are seen to be agreeing with it. Therefore I used the word "members".
You don't need to ask me or any other member to change their opinion, however you have the right to censor what they say on your forum and change it if you so wish. |
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iankb
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Location: Reading, UK
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Northernbloke wrote: | | Indeed, however take a situation where a journalist publishes an article they have written and it subsequently proves to be untrue/misleading/whatever then the publication it appeared in invariably takes some form of remedial action by publishing corrections/apologies etc. By not doing that when the review was so bad in so many other peoples opinions ... |
Reading the comments on this forum (which is hardly a fair representation of Joe Public), I think the jury is still out on whether the majority of people considered it a bad review.
I see a vociferous few voicing their anti-CP5 comments, and a significant (and mostly silent) majority who found the review and the product acceptable, if not perfect.
Contrary to your expectations and wishes, constant repetition of your protests does not increase the size of your protest group.
You can't prove the proportion of pro v. con any more than I can, so why could you expect the forum to formally disassociate themselves from the original review?
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Ian
iPaq 2210
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CoPilot 6, GPS Tuner 4.2, Navio 3.01
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Bazzer
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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This seems to have gone off on a tangent  There was no intention to open up old wounds.
I was attempting to generate debate as to whether people thought that it was unusual that ALK had not submitted CP6 for a pre-release review, but had simply released V.6 when they had previously stated that they were still working on V.5 with no plans to release V.6
Whether ALK may have feared the possibility of a negative review
If, as ALK stated they were still working on V.5, any updates would have been freely available, rather than having to buy the new version.
And whether people considered ALK had given up on CP5 (and users) and were concentrating on the new Xmas consumers.
Any thoughts...
Baz
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PONDEROUS
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Joined: Aug 25, 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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iankb wrote
| Quote: | | a significant (and mostly silent) majority who found the review and the product acceptable, if not perfect. |
and, in the same post, he wrote
| Quote: | | You can't prove the proportion of pro v. con any more than I can... |
Aren't those two statements mutually contradictory?
It is surely most important at this stage to consider how the situation that has given rise to some of the above posts might might be avoided in the future.
The following is not exhaustive, but I would believe that the principles listed below would help:
 Acknowledge uncertainty. For example, state how much, or little you have tested the product.
Acknowledge your errors. If something you say turns out to be incorrect or unclear, then put up your hand straightway. On no account start arguing that night is day, up is down or the like.
Distinguish fact from opinion. If there can be more than one view, then say so, or "leave the door open". On the other hand, don't muddy the waters by claiming that a bald fact is a matter of opinion.
Be prepared to accommodate fair comment. If someone draws attention to something that you have said in error, overstated, etc., then accept it and move on. Don't ever imagine that because you or someone else hold(s) a certain position, or did this or that for the forum, then you(they) must be deemed omniscient.
If the above rules are applied not only to any future review but also to any posts arising from it, then we should all be able to look forward to an informative debate about what does and does not work in this version of Copilot.
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iankb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| PONDEROUS wrote: | iankb wrote
| Quote: | | a significant (and mostly silent) majority who found the review and the product acceptable, if not perfect. |
and, in the same post, he wrote
| Quote: | | You can't prove the proportion of pro v. con any more than I can... |
Aren't those two statements mutually contradictory? |
Not at all, if you don't quote totally out of context. If you read the post again, you'll see that I say "I see a significant (and mostly silent) majority who found the review and the product acceptable, if not perfect." That's still my view, whether you choose to disagree or not.
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Ian
iPaq 2210
Globalsat BT-338
Seidio G2500 Amplified Vent Mount
CoPilot 6, GPS Tuner 4.2, Navio 3.01
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PONDEROUS
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, iankb, I have read your post again and it remains the case that you can't "see" (or hear) whether the "silent majority" do or do not believe that the original review was good.
I really do think that it is time to discuss the product. Why not let's try drawing a line here and trying to get some information out there about the product and its and its manufacturers' performance.
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Dell Axims X50v & X30 (both WM 2003 2nd Edition). Copilot BTGPS3 and Fortuna Clip-on BT receivers. Jabra BT 250 audio headsets. Welltech 40032/AF32 BT handsfree audio. Copilot 6.0.4.110. TomTom Navigator 5.21. MS Autoroute/Pocket Streets 2005 |
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dpdurst
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Location: Maricopa, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| PONDEROUS wrote: |
then we should all be able to look forward to an informative debate about what does and does not work in this version of Copilot.
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How can a debate be informative about what works and/or does not work, when those of us that had CP5 working fine were repeatedly reminded that CP5 was trash and not worth it? The review I read I based my purchase on and it was fine, I'm sorry that you and perhaps others had a worse experiance than maybe myself and others, but 6 months of bashing got nowhere! was it worth it? Its funny I can't wait to see what happens with CP6 and any review that comes out. Hell I could do a review and something that works for me, but not you would end up in a war since it was not reported correctly.. so with that... what if the CP5 review was correct based on what the user experianced, would that be any different than YOU doing a review and I find things that are not correct? Do you or anyone else have the same issue with Windows bugs, other software that has bugs? In fact what software does run 100% all the time? I work with it everyday and there's always going to be problems, just like the GPS software, I used enough of them that I just like what CP does vs the others. discussions are fine, but one sided ones are just really funny read! |
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GrimBeard
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Joined: Mar 27, 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Spurn Point
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Oh my God, not again.
Please spare us. I can imagine hundreds of PocketGPS's running to beachy head like suicidal Lemmings.
Wheeeeeeeeeee..............Splat.
GB |
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Paul-m
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:07 am Post subject: Review |
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I was one of the ones to get a free copy of CP6 at the meet on saturday.
Why didnt give away 49 and save one for the PGPSWORLD review? Having got a copy on order at work i might even offer a copy on loan for a review...;-)
i have an iPAQ HX4700 and have used destinator 2 and TT3 and 5.
Ive only been using CP6 for short trips so far and having been a TT5 user i do have to admit that TT5 has a much better user interface as well as a clearer screen and nicer maps. I still find the menus a little odd on CP6.
Why does CP6 have a 'menu' button on screen? for example
But in CP6's favour it does compute routes very quickly. Also re-routing seems instant once its realised you turned off its defined route.
CP6 has locked up once so far while driving. it seemed to hang for almost a minute and then catch up suddenly.
another gripe is that the count down to a junction goes nicely down in Yards until it reaches 100 and then suddenly it switches to 500Ft and continues in feet. Why not stay in yards? the effort to prgram this feature is wasted and just adds another oddity to the user.
having read all of the posts on CP5 i was expecting a pile of rubbish that crashed all the time. well... CP6 isnt anywhere near as bad so far.
While it may be a bit quirky in comparison to the slick interface provided by TT5 it does route quickly and well.
Time will tell if it measures up in terms of robustness and if i can live with the interface long enough to get comfortable with it.
The rest just boils down to personal taste and how you use your sat nav kit. |
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