GR-213 TTFF

johnmar · Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:47 pm Post subject: GR-213 TTFF

In the comments section of the GR-236 BT receiver recent review, there are several posts relating to the GR-213 GPS 'mouse'. I want to add my own experiences with this product and thought it would be useful to start a new thread in this section.

I purchased a GR-213 towards the end of August from Holux UK, who confirmed that they were supplying the unit with the most recent SiRF III firmware. After powering-up for the very first time, a fix was achieved in under one minute. I suspected (later confirmed by Holux) that units were tested prior to despatch, which would have assisted in achieving this result.

I ran the system with TTN5 for approx 2 weeks, obtaing rapid First Fixes and always with approx 8-9 sattelites and then maintaining fixes in difficult conditions. This is in spite of my operating with the receiver hidden away. A real gem!

However, I noticed that as time went by, the unit developed difficulty in achieving a fix on its own (with TTN5 my habit has been to allow the unit to establish a fix before running TT) and I had to use the GPSViewer utility to warm or cold start. Once this was achieved the system ran as it should. Again I noticed that I had the same problem even if I powered off (whilst stationary) for a couple of minutes after having say a 10 sattelite fix. These seem to be very similar problems experienced on the forum by Ulf and Mike.

I contacted Holux UK Tech Support who were happy to talk through the problem and after about a week of my monitoring the situation suggested that I return the unit for testing. They confirmed that the unit had "gone deaf" and indicated that the problem might be hardware related.

I have just been supplied with a new replacement unit, which again achieved a fix out-of-the-box in well under a minute. Hopefully this will continue.

Purely on a speculative level, I did wonder whether or not I had contributed to the problem by changing settings etc (meddling) with the GpsViewer utility. My fears were based on a previous bad experience with an EMTAC GPS sleeve when I managed to achieve a non-reversable protocol change via the Cruxview utility which rendered the receiver unuseable! Holux told me that this was unlikely, but for the moment I shall not use GpsViewer on the new unit.

I would like to add that the service received from Holux UK when purchasing and on subsequent support has been of a very highest level and very personal. They are to be congratulated.
_________________
John

iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe

uffe73 · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject:

I have had the exact same experiences as you menition. I too have been fiddling quite a bit with the GPS parameters (mostly static navgation and DGPS src) to finetune the performance and learn more about the behaviour of the receiver - I've been doing this with SiRF-Demo from the PC since the GPSViewer from Holux is completely wasteless. The TTFF has gone really bad lately. I find it very hard to believe that the performance could be degraded due to my changing the parameter values a few times.

I've been in contact with Holux support (in Taiwan though). They have confirmed (through my serial number) that my receiver has latest status.

Johnmar, is the performance of your replacement-reciever still fine? I'm really interested in the technical reasons for this behaviour.

Could you please give me an email address to a contact person @ Holux UK (best if you send in a private message)? Maybe I should better go through them than Holux in Taiwan.

Regards,

Ulf
_________________
TomTom GO720T: App ver 8.351(9982/090518), OS:315187, GPS v1.20, Boot 5.5120
TT RDS-TMC: 4V00.013
Maps: Scandinavia v840.2562, Western_Europe v715.1703
Garmin GPSMap 60CSx (SW ver. 3.70)

uffe73 · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: GR-213 TTFF

johnmar · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject:

Hi Ulf

My replacement unit is still functioning fine at present, rapidly aquiring a fix from power on without any software intervention. As mentioned, I holdback from running TTN5 until I know I have a fix, as this avoids the TTN5 bug of the software re-setting the GPS receiver if a fix is not obtained after a very short time from running TT. I would add that I only received the replacement 3 days ago so may be it is too soon to judge. I hope not.

I have also deliberately not run any utility software for the GR-213 (more for superstitious reasons), just in case this did cause the problem.

Most of my contact with Holux UK was by telephone, the only email address I have is a general contact tech@holux-uk.com.

Gone deaf. Interestingly enough, this terminology was used both by the person who answered their telephone and coordinated matters, and also by the tech support team themselves. Clearly they used it to describe a 'recognised symptom' (not only for the GR-213) where a receiver is unable to 'hear'/recognise sattelite signals and process them for a fix, without a 'kick' in the for of a cold/warm start. I don't believe that I was ever in SiRF mode as I only used GPSViewer. In any case I was certainly back in NMEA mode as I was using TTN5. The 'deafness' was present in NMEA mode.

They were also sceptical that my problems related to my using GPSViewer and suggested it was probably a hardware failure. I asked whether there were many reported problems with the GR-213 similar to mine, but thaey said there were not. I also asked whether this could be a failure of the internal rechargeable battery which powered the 'memory', and was told that this was a possibility.

One thig I did notice whilst I was having problems, when using GPSViewer, I was able to see sattelite data being received, but in non-technical terms it seemed to be 'ignored', as there were only part-complete lines of data. Once a cold start was initiated, 'full data' was eventually being streamed. It was as though the receiver was 'sleeping'. I suppose they describe this a 'deafness''?

Thank for the suggestions for different software, but for the moment I shall leave well alone.
_________________
John

iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe

uffe73 · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:07 pm Post subject:

Very interesting to hear this. The problems I have seem identical to yours so it's probably a good idea for me to contact Holux as well.

It's great to share experiences in forums like this one!

/Ulf

Trigger · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject:

I also have a 213 and have the same problums when first had would connect in a few seconds now take ages> When I go into GPS Viewer and try cold start takes ages to connect .
_________________
JohnLittleton

uffe73 · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:16 pm Post subject:

John, what FW version does your replacement unit have? Is the FW similar or newer than mine (see my signature)? Holux UK are suggesting a FW upgrade to fix the TTFF problem in my receiver.

Regards,

Ulf
_________________
TomTom GO720T: App ver 8.351(9982/090518), OS:315187, GPS v1.20, Boot 5.5120
TT RDS-TMC: 4V00.013
Maps: Scandinavia v840.2562, Western_Europe v715.1703
Garmin GPSMap 60CSx (SW ver. 3.70)

johnmar · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject:

Ulf

How do I access the FW Version Number?

Can this be done on my Pocket PC?

Regards
_________________
John

iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe

uffe73 · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject:

johnmar · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject:

MikeProcter · Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:36 pm Post subject:

Mike Procter Here....

Firstly I'm running a Treo 650 on Palm OS.

I'm having problems with TTFF as well. But it is not consistant. Sometimes it starts quickly - surprisingly quick & other times it can take several miles before it gets a fix. It always gets a fix eventually.

Today I had been using the GR213 for 160 miles. stopped & turned off the ignition. started up the car approx. 5 mins or less later & it took 2 miles before Tom Tom 5.12 was working. I didn't turn off the phone - just left it in the cradle & when I restart the car, the BT car kit wakes it up & tom tom starts up from where it was when the ignition was turned off.

I have no way of finding out what f/w my unit is. I thought that it was a faulty seidio cradle at first, but when I left tom tom to start up when it received the signal it eventually starts.

I have a Palm T3, but have never used it with the GR213, as I've installed the receiver & cable it the car & would need to open up the dash again to pull out some more cable! It's hidden so nobody can tell that the car has GPS. Just an unusual phone cradle!
_________________
Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit

johnmar · Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:23 pm Post subject:

Mike

I believe the acid test is to see how quickly the 213 receiver can achieve a fix from power-on on its own i.e. without intervention from TomTom. I am not familiar with the Palm version of TTN5, but the Windows version of their GPS driver has been descibed as being "impatient" if a fix is not very quickly achieved. It then proceeds to reset the receiver in an attempt to 'help' matters along.

I find it pays to delay launching TTN5 until I actually need to start navigating etc. I tend to switch on the ignition (or accessory circuit) early in order to power up the GR-213, prior to cradling my iPAQ, fastening seat belt etc. With the 213 functioning as it should, there is usualy a fix by the time I drive off and TTN5 is functional without delay.

I have also installed my receiver out of site, but since it is fixed under the centre console arm rest, which is also the lid for the storage box, it is easy to check to see whether the LED is flashing to confirm a fix. If you aren't able to check the LED you could always monitor this with GPSViewer.

In the example you gave (160 mile trip), it might have been better to have exited TTN before switching off the ignition (your route would still have ben there on re-launch) and then have re-launched when you were ready to drive off. The 213 would then have had an opportunity to regain its fix without interruption from TTN. Assuming the 213 was operating correctly, also assuming that you weren't in an especially difficult location, the unit would only have needed approx 30+ seconds to achieve a fix.

In conversations I had with Holux UK support, they did point out that athough the 213 was very good at maintaining a fix in difficult conditions, the location of the car, with regard to trees and other obstructuions, could influence the time it took to obtain a one. This could also be adversely affected if the unit was hidden away without a 'view' of the sky. It will achieve a fix, but can be delayed. When I was experimenting for the optimum place to locate the receiver, I found it useful to monitor the relative signal strengths being received in different locations via GPSViewer Status. It did vary quite a bit depending on what was shielding the receiver.

Regards
_________________
John

iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe

MikeProcter · Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:45 pm Post subject:

Thanks for that John.

I'll delay starting ttn for a few mins after starting ignition & see what happens.

I can't use GPSviewer as it is a pc application!

My receiver is mounted behind my glove box so I can not see it!

GPS is great, but I guess that 90% of the time I know where I'm going - i.e Dover, Hastings or Crawley for example & just need ttn to direct me over the last few miles to the exact location. We all know certain areas better than ttn & would never use the routes suggested, but rely on ttn when we are in an unfamiliar area.

Don't you just love it when you're out at night in unfamilar teritory, told by ttn to take the next left in xxx yards & then find out it is a no left turn!

ttn is a guide & you have to interpret what it says when you are out there.
_________________
Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit

MikeProcter · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:05 am Post subject:

I used the car last night, and as suggested waited before starting TTN.

OK, I waited half to three quarters of an hour, but TTN got a fix almost instantly! - I was on a route that I do regularly & know until I hit traffic jams on the south & north circular!
_________________
Skoda Columbus and for emergencies: TomTom + iPhone 4 & TomTom car kit

johnmar · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject:

Mike

Just as an excersise, it would be worth starting TTN say 5 minutes after starting (you could progressively reduce the period for control puposes ) just to establish how well the receiver is performing. As mentioned, if it is behaving, it should acquire a lock in under a minute.

I also tend to use TTN infrequently to navigate, as most of my journeys are local and known, but I now use the POI speed/safety cammera warnings reasonably full time. Even with known routes, TTN is very good for diverting from traffic jams and leaving motorways and travelling cross-country with confidence.

Regards
_________________
John

iPAQ3830 (32MB) PPC2002 ROM 1.20
CF Expansion Pack
Holux GR-213 GPS Mouse (GSW3.1.1 -3.1.00.07 C23B1.00)
Kingston Elite Pro 1 GB CF Card for maps
Viking 512MB SD Card (not used for navigating)
TTNav 5.210 (5430) Maps of W Europe

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